chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 3 days ago • 100%

It's time for the marshmallow roast from the fires of 

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 1 week ago • 97%

Also the outrage of the residents really shows the humanity scale of black and brown people in this country. In summary, death to Amerikkka 

movies ChestRockwell • 2 weeks ago • 100%

Ok so it's Netflix slop and it shows in the third act, but the journey is generally enjoyable and has a lot of good pigs being pathetic. [From the AV club review ](https://www.avclub.com/rebel-ridge-review) ::: spoiler spoiler >That’s really the genre Saulnier lands on here, complete with a moral clarity about its violence—Terry doesn’t kill, for reasons not precisely stated but perfectly in keeping with his background as well as his pragmatism—that might strike some as insufficiently radical, especially for a filmmaker who has knowingly flirted with exploitation-movie righteousness Personally I wanted at least a few of the pigs to die, though there's definitely some fun wounding/injuring. I wonder if some of the tameness is due to the Netflix slop machine. Still, I think even if the ending is a bit disappointing, the journey makes it clear how corrupt the pigs are and how irredeemable they are. ::: In short 

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 4 months ago • 100%

>Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. Caussidière for Danton, Louis Blanc for Robespierre, the Montagne of 1848 to 1851 for the Montagne of 1793 to 1795, the nephew for the uncle. And the same caricature occurs in the circumstances of the second edition of the Eighteenth Brumaire.  We have again proof that Marx (and Hegel) are correct.  The first instance of an indicted presidential candidate running is of course the GOD Eugene V. Debs, running from prison after [interfering with military recruitment for World War I, one of the most pointless wars ever.](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/249us211)  We now might have a presidential candidate running from (the funniest version at least) prison for hush money to a porn star.  This is proof of the eternal science of Historical Materialism, and I will not be taking any questions at this time.  

music ChestRockwell • 4 months ago • 100%

youtu.be

The whole live is good, but I just love a stripped down ballad like this. 

music ChestRockwell • 5 months ago • 100%

www.youtube.com

 Fucking jam, also, insane plot to this story. I love it. WE MADE LAAAHHAAAVEEEE The moment where she sings "please, please understand" is also a top tier moment.

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 5 months ago • 100%

Are you gonna bump the BONK? https://noshumusic.bandcamp.com/track/the-bonk-song   

movies ChestRockwell • 6 months ago • 92%

Folks, it's good! Incredibly violent with some fairly decent (tho not perfect) politics. ::: spoiler spoiler The inclusion of what's basically a religious group of trans warriors (that's how I saw it at least) that power up Dev Patel's character to kill cops is sick as well. :::

movies ChestRockwell • 6 months ago • 100%

filmfreakcentral.net

Great review 

theory ChestRockwell • 6 months ago • 100%

## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. Finally, please **feel free to drop in at any point.** We're well along, but the old discussions remain open and I'd still love to have anyone who wishes to join. [@MF_COOM@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/MF_COOM) [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo) [@Vampire@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Vampire) ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) [Week 2](https://hexbear.net/post/1631798) [Week 3](https://hexbear.net/post/1679516) [Week 4](https://hexbear.net/post/1734870) [Week 5](https://hexbear.net/post/1893030) [Week 6](https://hexbear.net/post/2006204) [Week 7](https://hexbear.net/post/2054861) ## Chapter 20 - Feels like we're finally drawing some conclusions. Firstly - the jestermaxxing of the early 10's has not been vindicated. - "Things are worse now" of course is quite a vibe, and I think accurate. - 301 – we are still living under the stupid south park meme - ??? - remains the key fill in (and at least MLM has thoughts for how to fill that in) - Planning for the after, I think, is a key missed opportunity (and indeed, we see how the "after" is filled by reactionaries if we do not claim it). - I do like that, if nothing else, Bevins indicts teleological thinking. There's no necessity to the changing world becoming "better." - However, I do feel like "lighting it on fire" is not necessarily the right comparison. Revolution and change does not necessarily have to destroy all that came before it (I feel like a clean break with the past is almost ontologically impossible, humans are historical beings). - But unless you work for it, the new car/new world won't happen, I think, is the takeaway we should have. - I feel this vindicates the Trueanon "you gotta be unemotional about this" vibe. - Maybe ends **are** more important than means. - 7/10 backsliding is rough. Bevins's list of W's: South Korea. Euromaidan is a push - Chile feels like a definite borderline, and there's still potential, but Al Jazeera suggests there's not going to be much movement until 2025. - Anyone have further info on this? - If Chile actually adopts a left constituion, this would probably be the biggest W, but we are sort of in the middle of the arc right now. - The postmortem on the Arab Spring is especially brutal. - And now we arrive at the money question: why doesn't protest work? - Here, I do think also the past decade is a big refutation of the **narrative** produced about the mid-century model (Civil Rights in the US, India, etc.). We're told in school about nonviolence, but to what degree is this even viable anymore, I think, is a live and real question. - "There is no such thing as a political vacuum" - this is a very important maxim, and I think I can agree with it. We should rush into these open spaces and make the case for our left position, rather than the farce of anti-politics. - "A protest is very poorly equipped to take advantage of a revolutionary situation, and that particular kind of protest is especially bad at it." - A contrast with mid-century – protests were always subordinated to a larger strategy of independence/revolution/reform. Here, there's a sense that there isn't that larger "endgame." - Bevins throwing a bone to reformists here. I wonder if we'd have a different perspective here in the imperial core if there were some sort of proletarian party that at least ostensibly supported the working class (a PT, for instance). - I will say, Brazil feels the most tragic, because in some ways, the MPL was doing the very "pushing left" that we understand unions, etc. doing to FDR. Yet, instead of a New Deal or better situation for the working class in Brazil (and the PT was in power!), we got the situation we did. - Turns out you have to create some sort of organizational/representative structure (perhaps also why Chile is a tentative win) - This kid in Ukraine gets it too "Any revolution with no organized labor party will just give more power to economic elites, who are already very well organized" - Bevins with some savage juxtaposition. - "Not one person told me that they had become more horizontalist, or more anarchist, or more in favor of spontaneity and structurelessness." Oof. - I will say, for my anarchist comrades, I do think not all of this is **necessarily** a result of horizontalism as such, rather, it might also have to do with strategies for coopting revolutionary movements developed in response to horizontalist movements. As such, I do think new safeguards need to be developed. There's nothing wrong with struggle sessions and votes, after all. - I like that Bevins also acknowledges that these things don't just magically happen together. - _de facto_ leadership, is, of course, the real fact. There's people with more energy, more commitment, etc. who can rise up in any group, even if it's technically horizontal. - I do think there's something valuable about prefiguration, but it has to be merged with discipline/structure (here I'm thinking of CHAZ/CHOP's failure). - Bevins with a really great insight: why do all these protests look the same? Why is there a "package"? - It's anti-Soviet bias and revisionism! - Also, great materialist analysis: social media DOES make Anarchist organizing "easier" in some ways! - Oh such a great taking up of Graeber (who we all appreciate as a comrade, RIP) here. "If you are actually successful, someone is going to declare war on you." I think that Graeber might even agree here to a degree, and perhaps this is also something missing from the 10's - The work of translating strategies is I think something that we should always remember is _work_ and always requires adaptation/development (here, I also think about the angst about machine translation of things like anime, etc. as if there's anything close to scientific translation). - The corrosive input of pop culture, another big OOF. - Rage Against the Machine mentioned. Ironically though, I think it's actually nice (sowing seeds, in a way). - The north-> south flow though, I think, needs to be reckoned with. How can we look to the south as generative/creative? - Realness: "In New York or Paris... you just get a media or academic career afterward. Out here in the real world, if a revolution fails, all your friends go to jail or end up dead." - Bevins doing some work to credit other thinkers in the field here. - Some real interesting arguments about a de-radicalized generation. I have felt this about GenX in particular, broken by Reagan and Thatcher, but there's also a kind of failing of Millenials as well, since we drank the KoolAid of neoliberalism. I'd like to think we're doing better now, but who knows. - This material on individualism is important, I think. Is there a way to push us back to the "mass" of the 20th century? How do we produce a more effective collective? - Ironically, I feel like the "horizontalism of role" that Bevins describes is so clutch - "the 'leaders,' the people who make strategic decisions or stand in front of cameras, must not be seen as superior to the people delivering food, or risking their lives in battle, or caring for the sick and wounded" - The Leninist analysis of mass uprising is relevant, I think, as well. - As is the recognition that there's foreign meddling as a crucial X-factor in all of these. If they had proceeded 'organically', would they have led to change? Perhaps, but we don't live in a world where that is possible. - America bad propaganda, I think, is useful if only so that people will recognize that they can't pretend they live in a world without a state willing to do anything to prevent an alternative system from forming. - The role of the crackdown is also a common theme, glad Bevins brings this up. - Having "good victims" unfortunately matters. - Here we get to something we've been tracking - the role of media. Having the media "prop up" the right people is, sadly, important (Tim-Houthi Chalamet went viral, others didn't). - Basically, exposing the violence of repression (the Monty Python bit is actually exactly right) is also important, so having cameras is good (though practice good OPSEC people! Wear masks, turn off GPS, etc.) - ORGANIZING MATTERS. If you're a UnionMan, then the Union can help explain why we're striking. Growing these key organs, I think, is something that needs to be worked on. - Big Takeaway: 323 "After looking at events like this across the world, I have come to the conclusion that horizontally structured, digitally coordinated, leaderless mass protest is fundamentally illegible. You cannot gaze upon it or ask it questions and come up with a coherent interpretation based on evidence." - So, to what degree are the current protests for Palestine falling in the same trap? I know that at least the anti-war movement still has some vanguard forces, but I do think there's a real potential opportunity as contradictions heighten this year, and how do we as leftists ensure they aren't taken advantage of? - "Movements that cannot speak for themselves will be spoken for." - fortunately, this is not yet a total voic re: Palestinian liberation/peace. There are organized voices in the movement - I like Bevins's critique of the assumption that these groups want "westernization", etc. - And conflating democracy with the west. - I do think Bevins's rhetorical choice of "explosion" to describe these protest movements interesting. I am not studied in philosophical stuff around "the event", but I feel like to some degree this is something Bevins is circling around (any more philosophy-focused comrades want to take this up?) - The media critique seems valid, but I wonder if there's a left version that says "we should actively work towards making a meaning that benefits our purposes," rather than concern ourselves with a liberal media version of "what happened" in a forensic sense? - After all, if Bevins's book shows anything, it's that the forensic "reality" of these protests didn't matter for their negative consequences. - "We are drawn so powerfully to the production of whatever will go viral on social media" 326. Is this something to resist or co-op? I think it's an open question. - "Things could have gone differently" – I appreciate Bevins recongnizing the contingency of these "hinge points" (a lot of them, I think, were). - "You should not pick your strategy based on which post gets the most upvotes on a forum." - Words to live by. I hope that if we're ever doing real praxis, we're not running polls on hexbear. I think if we take anything from this book as comrades, it's that if we enter the cool zone we have to get a hiearchy going. I'm not going to lead, but I'll be on the side of the struggle session pushing for a representative structure, because we need that shit. ## Chapter 21 - Folks, we're here! It's the end! - "We have planted the seed for something bigger." (328) This is a classic cope for failure (see, Bernie 2020 and 2016), but I do think there's something there as well. - "Between obvious truth and teleological self-deception" - what a wonderful way to put this. So, how do we make it into the obvious truth, I think, is the question? - I don't know if "failure is an option" with climate stuff though… - Finding a good comrade, that's a nice outcome (and indeed, is futurity incarnate if you have a child) - I do think there's a good argument against "Do somethingism" - we need to be strategic, unemotional, and choose our battles. - Not every action is equally valuable, I think, is another good takeaway - "Organizations are effective, and representation is important. Collective action has a proven record of success and works best when it is truly collective."330 - who knew! - UNIONIZATION - "Strikes and boycotts work much better than people walking back and forth across a city" god damn, spit it Bevins. - I do like this caveat "But none of that means you have to dismiss unplanned mass action or decline the participation of all kinds of regular people who may not have the time or inclination to join a political party, union, or formal organization" – yes, we can totally use these moments. - Part of why we all need to "be normal" in public, so that in these moments, we can work towards our ends, collectively, and drawing on an even greater power of the "mass" - "The crucial distinction is to not use the explosion in order to _form_ the organization" - This is why we have to be building orgs. Do the work now, so that when the hinge point happens, we're ready - Surprising Derrida citation, but I like the _phamrakon_ idea. However, this is a "weak defense" (it's a tool, you can use it for good or evil) of revolution. I'm fine with it, but I wonder if there's a strong defense out there (I'm thinking of the "weak defense" of rhetoric as like makeup – used by good girls and bad girls alike, and then the strong defense - rhetoric determines the very values of good and bad and thus is before good use/bad use since it is constructive) - "Networked leninism" - is that what we're doing? - ORGANIZE ORGANIZE ORGANIZE. - "A focus on ends" - I really like this return to the GOAL of all this. This doesn't excuse means, but it really means that it's better to win than to play fair. - And yeah, there's really a question of people who just want to scrap. I want to say I admire them, but also, should we really build a movement around this? - The FEELING, I think, is a key temptation. I'm not saying we have to be revolutionary ascetics, but avoiding the "high" is important. Or, to use Bevins's framework, having a structure that insulates leadership from the "high" is probably important. - TWO REALLY BIG FOOTNOTES at the end - let's all keep our opsec, because organization has a different set of challenges. - Althusser could be a cool reading group sometime, though I wouldn't want to lead it. ## Final Thoughts Hopefully these reading notes help out anyone reading the book in the future. Please don't hesitate to respond to these threads in the future, and I hope we've picked out some of the important questions/insights from Bevins's work. Looking forward to following along with future book clubs here!

theory ChestRockwell • 6 months ago • 100%

## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. Finally, please **feel free to drop in at any point.** We're well along, but the old discussions remain open and I'd still love to have anyone who wishes to join. [@MF_COOM@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/MF_COOM) [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo) [@Vampire@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Vampire) ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) [Week 2](https://hexbear.net/post/1631798) [Week 3](https://hexbear.net/post/1679516) [Week 4](https://hexbear.net/post/1734870) [Week 5](https://hexbear.net/post/1893030) [Week 6](https://hexbear.net/post/2006204) Just because we're almost done doesn't mean you can't join in! All previous posts remain open, and since it is a long book, just hop in at any point/place. This is our last set of chapters on the "events" - 20/21 will be conclusions, from how far I've read into 20. ## Chapter 18 - The farce here is of course particularly stupid - got to arrest Lula before he can get elected - It's kind of insane to think of how Lula's imprisonment started with a movement that fundamentally his party is/was sympathetic to (hence, I think, Bevins's immediate turn to Mayara) - However, as Bevins insists, it wasn't their fault (indeed, if we take anything from this, I think it's that protests open up a contingent space where there's really a lot of potential possibilities, and you have to fight for your desired outcome). - I also see parallels to America, and the Democrats failure to embrace the energy of the 2020 protests in a meaningful way (gesture to the Nancy-kneeling emoji, lol). - I can't imagine getting in the mind of a center-right person or lib reading this book and not seeing how they're the moderate wing of fascism. The cruelty/accelerating atrocities here really hit home. - 264 - paying someone for a cigarette – this is peak neoliberalism, and actually fucking with my brain. - What is to be done when the state imprisons the popular left candidate? Like, what should have been done here? Ironically, I feel like electoralism is an absolute dead end in this case, but I'm curious what y'all think? - I do feel like returning to protest/electoralism after multiple years of the shit that Bevins has discussed is kind of crazy. Lula won last year or whatever, but was it worth it to have 4 or 5 years of Bolsonaro? - Rather than tragedy/farce, this is just two different tragedies, and the kind of doomed energy of Mayara's organizing feels especially bad as there's clearly some real deep earnestness (naming it after the left wing martyr). - Also, even if this wasn't adventurism, it is a good example of why it's dangerous (266) - you're consolidating the reactionaries around a martyr. - I can kind of see why the right wing went so hard on the LGBTQ culture war, since it's lurid and easily shared by boomers. While the energy is fading, I wouldn't be surprised to see it again.… - The distinction between the hardcore and the "voters" of course applies to Trump too, and the real question is, how do you peel off these "voters"? I'm not exactly filled with hope that we find ourselves in this position again. - "Let's see how he does" attitude seems the core of this – is there any way we could grab these voters to a left candidate instead? - The role of gender does seem relevant to bring up here. I hate to return to a Chapo/Hasan/Citations Needed meme, but how do we get more left-wing "self-help" types to avoid men becoming like this? - The Citations beg-a-thon noted, there's a paradox, since left critique is often systemic, thus self-help hardly gets you the changes that you desire in society. - Of course, all the corruption reporting is too little too late, and I wonder how useful it is. Lula did get elected though, so perhaps it helped discredit Bolsonarismo among squishy libs? - "Brazilian agribusiness already quite liked the current setup in the country" (270) this feels very like the DeSantis shit with Disney, etc. Why do we get these right wingers when Capital is already so concentrated/comfortable? Why aren't they disciplining their petit bourgeoisie better? - The connections between these right wing movements are important, and I'm glad Bevins notes the Ukraine right beginning to "appear" more. However, I do wonder if having some journalists who were able to "embed" in these movements might have added to the book. I'm not entirely sure on this, btw – maybe not knowing what's going on in those Telegram channels will keep us sane.. - This shit is just so grim at this point – I do wonder, would left-wing protests of Bolsonaro have done anything? Or is head down the best strategy (especially when they're trying to ban communism) - Interesting how Bevins notes that "normally, these figures [of anti-politics] floundered" – is the implication here Zelensky was propped up by western interests? Or was he lucky Putin invaded, allowing him to consolidate power? ## Chapter 19 - So, we're nearing the end here – Bevins suggesting that 2019 allows for us to really evaluate the organizational question that he's been tracing, so let's see where this goes. - What is it that allows for paranoid readings of "unremarkable" legislation (as Bevins describes it)? - It also might be business interests just trying to protect themselves (the "tycoons" worried about anti-corruption...) - Polite cops always smacks a bit of copaganda to me… - Coordinating beforehand to storm the building and disrupt proceedings – this is a classic tactic, and one that doesn't necessarily require cop clashes either (the UAW did it in California during the TA strike last year). - So on one level, this does really look like a mass movement (even Bevins acknowledges this) - Of course, the new generation of protestors can't remember the historical contexts – I find Finn Lau's frankness about this interesting, since the Arab Spring was such big news in the west. - This is really interesting - the total decentralization (yet it's not, since I'm assuming that polls aren't just submitted by anyone, I might be wrong though) as a contrast to Leninist organization and discipline. - "Be Water" is of course smart though, and I think if there's one thing to take from this, it's that you need to be agile/adaptable. How to graft that to an organizational discipline/vanguard is, I think, a key question here. - So, there's a clear difference from the reactionaries in Brazil (which are more clearly connected to US imperial interests), but I'm curious how many of these youth vanguard on telegram are connected. - I don't think it's all of them and I do think there were probably earnest actors in this case - maybe it's just vibes, but it doesn't feel as "inorganic/counterprogramming" as the Brazil stuff - I do like that Bevins notes – what do you do if you get "yes"? - Would a quick "sure" to the demands have been the way, perhaps? None of these 5 seems particularly depraved/terrible... - The colonial flag is just absolutely nuts, along with the redbaiting feels very connected to US interests to me. - And of course, identifying with Imperial Japan is always a terrible choice too. Au Loong-Yu's perspective is interesting here, since he's clearly not a huge fan of the PRC/mainland, but yet he recognizes that the movement is crippling itself. - The horizontalists remaining open to co-option is of course a key issue, and the arrival of the racists really feels like we're running the same script. - "The tyranny of structurelessness" is such a good perspective on this issue (283), and I do think this is what I was getting at with the fact that the people running the polls are de-facto leaders. - The role of organized crime is of course a _Blowback_ classic, and I feel like there's something deeply sinister about the Triads here. - Performativity in protests - cringe or useful? I'm legitimately curious, since I wonder if the aesthetics of culture are really helpful here (feels cringe to me). - "Previously worked for US Naval intelligence" (285) there it is! - "Imposing meaning" and the right wing attempt to co-opt what Bevins argues is a disparate movement with many different contours – this is, I think, another key takeaway (how do you prevent this imposition on a disorganized movement) - The protestors getting way out over their skis, of course, is inevitable, and here Leninist discipline, I think, matters a lot. - I do think that there's definitely an argument that sometimes you just chill and let these things "Burn out" - how do we prevent this sort of thing? Is this, again, a role for a more central structure (so you don't bleed chatroom members as things slow down?) - Switching to Chile and their own transit protests. - Interestingly, here we see how a mass movement can really work (there are fundamentally too many people to arrest) in response to curfews, etc. - I do think that there's something to having these associations/affiliations (i.e. the Abogados Feministas) that can "activate" and join in solidarity. - Shifts in technology matter - how much do they effect the actual conditions of protest though? Is posting on instagram stories really materially different (except in terms of audience, etc.) - The specificity in this movement does help - I think it's important to avoid leaving things totally empty (they don't have to be perfectly specific though) - having some placeholder "there" I think helps the cooption problem. Make the movement about a specific thing and also a specific goal. - Mayara thinks this is "better" and I'm inclined to agree. - Do we need a right-wing president to gain change? I feel like that's such a gamble, but I recognize the left-punching tendency otherwise. - Accelerationists, would you like to take the floor? - Having a clear shape matters, it turns out! - OK, a new thing that I do think really helps - making a local proxy/assembly for the centralized protest. Rather than making people come to the "square" as it were, there's a way to build solidarity in your community here. Very cool! - I do think this is something that was definitely not present in 2020 and perhaps a key reason nothing happened - you're not actually meeting with your community. - Obviously it's a fairly pathetic gesture (vote!), and was rejected by the streets. - However, both the "assembly" and the convention seem particularly troubled, since we've seen the real weaknesses with the horizontalist approach… - "Some of the most radical people insisted that a riot itself was the revolution and could be expanded and transformed into a new society" (295) - I feel like the multifaceted motives of the riot mean that it can't actually do this, but maybe there's potential? - Cancelled - this is especially comic. I feel like Marx's tragedy/farce is vindicated yet again - What's especially sad here is that there's a potential here in committees, etc. but the lack of a larger party structure is really killing the momentum it seems. - "The _cabildos_ had never really known what to do with the decisions made by their collectives" - Also, we can see the ability of the news cycle churn here (Hong Kong and Chile become backburner stories) - The role of COVID in transforming street movements is also interesting. In particular, the way that the end of hard lockdown let out already simmering tensions (some of which Bevins is noting here). ## Next Week's Reading (3/20) - Chapter 20-21

theory ChestRockwell • 7 months ago • 100%

## Schedule Announcement Decided to take an extra week since I didn't realize my tagging needed to be done in a top-level comment. Needless to say, sorting that out here. Since we're almost done, and since I'm finally done re-applying to my current job (contingent labor is hell folks), I think things should be smooth sailing from here. My current plan is to have two more weeks -- next week will be Chapter 18 and 19, and then 3/20 will be 19 and 20. The reasoning is that while we could blast it all out in one week, I don't want to run into issues with finals and so I'm giving myself a bit of a cushion to finish this up alongside my actual work. It's been a really interesting read, and I hope some of you have been encouraged to pick up/catch up on this reading series. ## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. Finally, please **feel free to drop in at any point.** We're well along, but the old discussions remain open and I'd still love to have anyone who wishes to join. [@MF_COOM@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/MF_COOM) [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo) [@Vampire@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Vampire) ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) [Week 2](https://hexbear.net/post/1631798) [Week 3](https://hexbear.net/post/1679516) [Week 4](https://hexbear.net/post/1734870) [Week 5](https://hexbear.net/post/1893030) ## Chapter 15 - So we're starting to get some direct links between Syria and Brazil as we move into 2015. Twilight of the Obama era, and we've got the consequences of this foreign policy rippling into other countries. - Interesting that Brazil, at least at this point, doesn't have the typical reactionary response to migration. I'm worried, however, this may change. - Was the anti-immigrant reaction of the mid 10's really particularly unique? Obviously it's in part due to the blowback of imperial policies in the Mideast or Latin America, but is there really anything "new" about this era? I don't feel like Bevins has a clear distinction between this and the 40-50 year history of panic at the US border, for instance. - On this (70) year history - Bevins does note that most countries that decolonized are, by and large, not in wildly better positions. - Is the "problem with Kansas" or "Brexit will hurt the country" just a liberal cope (ideology is trumping material interests because people want to stick it to the man)? I like that Bevins notes this is a common trend, back to 2003 and Schwarzenegger winning the governorship. - I feel like as leftists, we want to resist anti-politics, even if we recognize electoralism isn't the only form of politics out there. How do we present this in a way that doesn't allow us to be painted as "anti-political" though, since the one thing I'll hand to prefigurative politics is it is a politics. Making the commune happen is, after all, a form of politics (one I hope we can all do together someday), so how do we disentangle ourselves from those who reject politics entirely even if we're not going to vote or vote for West/Stein/etc? - I feel like the contradictory attitudes of citizens are simultaneously wildly frustrating and all too common, but there's always an opportunity there too (I'm thinking of the attitude on 225 - isn't there a chance to intervene when someone has this contradictory position?) - Bevins again with some salient media criticism on 226. - I think the example of the MPL here is really good – it's just a slow-moving disaster as a great movement is slowly being lost in a sea of reaction, and the members (at least according to Bevins) see it happening. - The ease with which reactionary forces "fit" the anti-politics void also makes me feel like we should always try to insist on politics, even if we're opposed to electoralism, but I'm curious if others have thoughts here? - I'm just struck by how Bolsonaro easily slid into the gap created by the MPL protest's slow collapse. - I feel like vague signifiers are a huge issue here ("corruption" as a problem is something you can fill with your own opinion, after all). On the one hand, they do allow for a mass movement, but it just seems incredibly dangerous as well… - I distinctly remember hearing about Lava Jato on NPR uncritically, as a "corruption" scandal with very little context, so it's interesting how there's a very clear media angle in Brazil here - Bevins trying to redefine corruption, I think, is a good move, but how do we give this kind of cognitive flip legs when it serves our purposes? I know when I teach, I joke about how I don't want to be free to decide between 6 different brands of black beans, but when is this move effective and when is it perhaps a fool's errand? - I think this turn to the question of representation (231) is especially interesting - it's a real question, when is representation "valid" or legitimate? Whe can we speak for each other, as it were? Or is it just direct democracy time all the time now? - Of course, Bevins is also right that politicians just usually don't represent their constitutents - Even China is in crisis w/r/t "representation" it appears - I have no idea if Bevins's source is accurate on this, but I wouldn't be surprised (just the continual abstraction/alienation that bureaucracy creates). - Thoughts on Roy's argument (234) that the NGO has more and more taken on the role of a contracting state? - The move to declare the movement over without the rest of the movement – ballsy move, but also, one I respect. Still, this feels like something to attend to – recognizing when the movement is dead and new directions need to be taken, yes? - Realistically, representation feels like a powerful tool we should never reject out of hand, but I sympathize with the MPL members who feel betrayed (even as a ML myself!). - I really think Bevins's pessimism is pretty warranted here, and it does feel like nearly every movement either died or was co-opted due to the issues that faced the MPL. I think it's a really good comparison, but any thoughts otherwise? ## Chapter 16 - OK, this is crazy. South Korea and psychic advisors to the president – Nancy Reagan joke here. - Pretty blatant corruption here, and the connections to the dictatorship are gross too, of course. - OK, this is interesting - Bevins is associating this blatant shit with the Dilma situation in Brazil. Also, personal memory kicking in again, I remember a ton about Dilma, but this Korean thing I don't, which is interesting. - Bevins is trying hard to give a sense for the kind of corruption that exists, and I do appreciate this. Reminds me of Christman's _Hell of Presidents_ where old corruption was basically a redistributive mechanism by other means. - While perhaps this isn't useful (we're in this to think about protest/organizing), would things have been better for Dilma if she had caved to this dude's demands? - I think the other thing here – this whole time, the right wing MBL has been organizing, simmering, and keeping the energy going, and use the protests that had started as left-wing to enact their right-wing impeachment agenda. I think this really shows how protest isn't just a "left-wing" or even "populist" thing - and perhaps we need to valorize it less? - Yet, at the same time, you have real bravery from anti-Israel activists at the moment, and I don't want to take anything away from them, or people like Aaron Bushnell. But seriously, it hurts to think that left-wing protests haven't gotten anything while right-wingers have gotten so much from co-opting those protests. - Police supporting the demonstration is obviously a huge red flag. - I do appreciate Bevins being very clear about the stakes of these things. Weird governmental arcana are important when it calls into question your power: "how can you govern a country if a rival faction within the state is recording and leaking your calls in order to weaken you?" (243) - Also, the role of _golpe_/coup here is interesting. The fact that right-wingers overthrew a more left government makes me sympathetic, but he's right this is a different/new "mechanism." - I do like the reminder that aesthetics don't really matter - the MBL ghouls changing their look on a dime from "indie rockers" to be where they need to be. - Protests calcifying into a kind of game with "obvious rules" I think is key here (247) - I feel like this kind of "expectation" also undercuts the power/potential in protest. Of course, how to renew the energy/novelty of a protest is also a real open question… - Bevins: "No one is imposing any costs on anyone in power. They are showing up to be counted" (247) – yeah, this isn't protest, this is just "showing face" (as a student of mine once said after skipping 90% of classes, showing up in Week 10).… - Bevins's arguments that these are all very performative is great - "who can afford a ticket" could also be "who can afford to take time off..." - The role of culture-war and anti-trans shit is really gross – I do feel like this was a moment though back in 2016 and way less explosive now (the anti-trans shit has been losing.) - Media really taking a central role here, and the spectacle nature of politics rears its head - Sexism, clowning, etc – this all feels like the right wing playbook, and really there's a question of what was to be done? Obviously we can appreciate the rage of someone like Jean Wyllys trying to accost Bolsonaro, but was the problem here perhaps they didn't go far enough (perhaps my ML stripes showing a bit hard here...) - What could have been done to make the MBL sickos more obviously painted as fascists? What can we do, as leftists (Anarchists and ML(M, etc.)s I think this applies to left unity here in a big way) to prevent this kind of disgusting co-option? - The "parlaimentary coup" language is tortured, but also perhaps correct? However, the media's role shouldn't be understated… - Aaaand we're back to Korea. I've been listening to Blowback Season 3 recently (getting hype for Season 5) and this summary is familiar to me. Bevins does a great job giving the cliffs notes here. - It's interesting to see protests adopted by subjects of all these different systems (various "democracies," dictatorships, etc.) - Is this one a "W"? Even though it just leads to the removal of the daughter of a dictator, it feels good (especially since it led to a rapproachment with NK). ## Chapter 17 - I do like reading this in 2024, as Trump is coming for America again. It's funny, since you'd think at this point more could be done in opposition, but there's a steady crawl towards a Marxian "first as tragedy, then as farce" sense of this year. - The role of technology has taken a bit of a backseat, but I do like Bevins returning to it. There is a materiality to the internet and its technologies (and especially their effects on the world) that I think is important to attend to. - Blowback? In my America? I like how Bevins connects the foreign policy of the Obama administration in the early 10/11 years to 2016. - Jakarta protests – we get a mini _Jakarta Method_ here it seems. - I think the parallel to Brazil is interesting and relevant, but I'm interested in how things go differently - Interesting role of ethnic/racial tensions that Bevins is establishing. Parallel to the sexism in Brazil, perhaps? (I'll admit, I'm not sure where this is going, since I don't remember the Jakarta protests Bevins is talking about here) - Edited video, viral attacks and outrage – this is the new right wing playbook, and I'm curious if we have thoughts as to how to counter it? - OK, so we have dualing protests again, which seems to be the par for the course now. I wonder where the "counterprogramming" meme came from, especially since early in the 10's, it was always reactionaries emerging from within the protests. What changed? - Bevins argues this isn't a movement(258), I think to emphasize the strategic/planned nature of all this (to elect someone other than Ahok, I guess?). However, what should we say of these sorts of strategic actions? How do they diverge from our own praxis? Do they? - However, on the next page, this is a confluence of movements ("an almost complete overlap between the radical anticommunist movement and the radical Islamist movement") - what's the tipping point here, Bevins? - Right wing digital soldiers – I do think this presages the Q movement in some key ways, and it's definitely worth paying attention to, but I wish Bevins had some more material from these groups (I know it's probably not possible, but interviews, etc. would have been nice). - Red baiting, riots, and murder – what could have gone different? I feel like to some degree this whole chapter reads like there was nothing to be done – there aren't really key strategic mistakes/failures like with Brazil, so I'm curious why Bevins includes it (aside from, perhaps, foreshadowing his own work in _The Jakarta Method_)? ## Next Reading 3/13 -- Chapter 18 and 19

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 7 months ago • 100%

[From a silly Pew thing](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/) 

theory ChestRockwell • 7 months ago • 100%

## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week (or thereabouts) with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. Finally, please **feel free to drop in at any point.** We're well along, but the old discussions remain open and I'd still love to have anyone who wishes to join. ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) [Week 2](https://hexbear.net/post/1631798) [Week 3](https://hexbear.net/post/1679516) [Week 4](https://hexbear.net/post/1734870) ## Chapter 12 - Artem's position feels very familiar. Is the over-educated/under-employed combo one worth cultivating in our organizing? - Of course, getting fired for trying to unionize is perhaps the most typical outcome here. How can we ensure potential comrades find useful/strategic material (so they aren't fired after 2 months...)? - I think the class character of "protest" (and, as it were, the more bourgeois character they've begun to take on) really starts to rear its head here. However, this also feels particularly esoteric – trade agreements with the EU – and thus lib catnip. With the crackdown though, is there the potential to transform this protest? We'll see, I think… - Good history of Soviet Ukraine – another great explainer from Bevins about the Banderites. - Bevins on the sham democracy of the post-soviet era – good? This broadly tracks with my own understanding, but any critiques/concerns with how he presents this? - Earlier I suggested maybe Bevins was missing the state department role in this stuff, but clearly here he's in the know, making the connections pretty explicit w/r/t the color revolution. Of course, in this case, I'm not particularly sure either of these politicians were "good" (and Bevins seems to suggest as much), but anyone think otherwise? - 181: "the Orange Revolution did nothing to change the oligarchical structure of the Ukrainian economy." Seems like this is the common theme, and feels like a L for protest (even if perhaps the Orange Revolution got what they wanted) - "But culture war is free." Bevins here tracks why I think we should always be suspicious of nationalism as leftists. We all know MAGA Communism is a sham, but I think broadly, we need to reaffirm internationalist commitments because nationalism gets so easily turned to culture war. - This protest feels so weird. Like, should we suspect this journalist is a state department asset? Or are these people just very committed to trade with Europe? - Also, it feels like the asks/goals of these protests are getting dumber/shittier each time. We've gone from free bus fares, issues around justice/economic security, and now.… EU trade regulations. - I'm trying not to be too cynical, but it feels like Bevins is setting us up for it, noting all the ways in which this is a rather different push than Brazil or even Egypt (185 and the various media narratives, for instance). - Police cracking heads again leads to mass support. I wonder though – is this kind of move being so overplayed that it's losing it force? Especially in the imperial core? - How do we keep liberals in check? Can they be useful? - 187 – got the right wing sickos – Bevins very good about making these stakes clear, t oo bad that the western journalists are so suceptible to just promoting these people. - I like how Bevins argues there's specific factors that allow right wingers to punch above their weight – thoughts on how to manage these contingencies? Is the swoletariat the future (since one issue is these assholes are hooligans basically)? - Alternatively, if we're trying to co-opt a liberal movement, how do we align both other leftists and liberals to our goals? Is organizational structure the only way? Can we retain some horizontalism (especially between leftist tendehncies in the movement) but have some kind of authority/org structure? - 188 Artem and crew trying to do this very thing. - This is just pretty sad, poor kids get their shit wrecked. - Alternatives – should the group have come prepared to fight? Or would that have ended badly? Or do you come nonviolently then return? Feels like there's a tactical L here. - Turns out having unions/organizational structure is a key way to avoid this kind of militarization (190). - Bevins with some great media critique here – Why did this protest get the imprimateur of "The people" is a real question here! - 192 - seems like this story is one of liberals getting dragged the wrong way (adopting violence… but for the wrong cause). The reverse could be good, broadlly, but how do you get the libs to pick up the fireworks for the left causes? - Staying in the movement even after it's been coopted by the right feels like a big L here for Artem. Obviously there's an argument not even to work with libs, but I've always felt that until things have gone to the right, there's an argument for engagement/persuasion/cooption. However, I think what this chapter shows is that there's definitely a line where you cut losses/ties – thoughts? - Was Maidan a coup? Thoughts? I think Bevins's analysis here is compelling, but what do y'all think? - 195 - the "pattern" of protest. "Infinite possibilities present themselves." How do we sieze these hinge points folks? - "We were very far from the digital world that Western leaders had envisaged just a few years prior. Bad things were happening all around, and raising awareness was very far from sufficient to stop them." (197) – is the reason for this a change in the technology? Or rather just people getting used to this stuff (and a few real dogshit awareness campaigns --looking at you Kony 2012)? ## Chapter 13 - OK, back to Brazil. Things continue to get worse, and the anti-World Cup movement trying to grab hold of an opportunity to improve the safety net. - I wonder if there's a way to use obscene "get in" prices to organize? - Anti-terrorism laws being used against leftists – this shit just sucks, and also why liberal howling about Jan 6th has always felt a bit sus. Be friendly with your co-workers folks, since while it was a false alarm, Mayara seems to have had a good crew. - Smashing car dealerships – this seems insanely cool, but I also see how it's frustrating when you've got specific goals. Granted, this protest they have planned feels a little half baked, so how do you keep people from splintering like that? Maybe having a cooler/stronger protest plan? - Brazil takes psychic damage from losing to Germany. - This election is just profoundly weird, and there's definite resonances. The fact is, the right winning is always pretty terrifying, and there's a real argument that sometimes we need to do electoralism. At least Brazil had Dilma though, not Biden… God that's a depressing thought. - Betraying the left here, though, I think is the bigger crime, and something to consider: how to exert force after the left gets betrayed by a harm reduction candidate? - The stolen election playbook, we love to see it folks! - Yeah, meanwhile the MPL is just slowly disintegrating. I like Vegetable's take here – that the right takes elements from the left and inverts them, which we see time and time again. ## Chapter 14 - And now we're in Hong Kong. Bevins with another great summary of the history after a little introduction. - I do like how Bevins connects the "repressive repertoire" (212) to colonial strategies. - "It was only after Margaret Thatcher and Deng Xiaoping hammered out the terms of the final 1997 handover that British authorities began to introduce democratization measures" – I feel like the take on this "undermining the transition" is probably right. After all, why do this shit now? Could have been done decades before. - Real question for the Deng-thinkers out there: Was "One Country, Two Systems" good policy? I honestly don't know, because I don't know if the alternative of just fully incorporating HK could have been done without massive violence. I'm not really knowledgeable on this history though, so I'm really interested in what y'all think on this. - I do think the longterm strategy of China has been pretty vindicated though – Bevins seems to think so too, with the comparison with Russia/former Soviet states. - Actually losing my mind at how blatant the HK system was – businesses have seats at the table, amazing work Anglos! Of course, does the mask-off nature of this make it easier to critique? Or is it actually harder since they're just doihng it in the open? - 216 - I love John Woo's crazy cop movies as much as the next movie mindset fan, but I do think Bevins' gentle reminder about copaganda is helpful here. - Conflict here between top-down movement and horizontalism (217) is interesting. Of course, there's some real irony here – the "pro Bejing" faction is pro cop as well. I feel like there's just muddled ideology here (though perhaps a comrade can clarify). Feels like Americans though, where protesting "my body my choice" with the vax falls apart w/ abortion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder if the capitalism of HK leads to the ideological mish-mash vibes? - Of course, "pro-democracy" doesn't have to be pro-West, but I think Bevins recognizes it as well. - There seems to be a "copy of a copy of a copy" going on here with Umbrella (218). In particular, it feels like each subsequent protest movement loses more of the things that are key to success. Say what you will about Tahrir and Tunisia, there was real change. Occupy already loses that fire, and now it's really becoming kind of hollow. Question though – is it governments adapting to these movements or the movements failing to recognize what made the previous iterations successful? - The role of memes here seems to be rising - pop culture as a touchstone for these movements. Cringe or potentially useful? - The coalition always fractures, but it's interesting how the right wing co-opts horizontalism here. I don't want to be suspicious of horizontalism as such, but it feels like a strong cudgel that opens up space for reactionaries here. Thoughts? ## Next Reading (2/29) -- Chapters 15, 16, 17 We're so back  [@MF_COOM@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/MF_COOM) [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo) [@Vampire@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Vampire) [@Pluto@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Pluto) I can't tag material_delinquent and WithoutFurtherBelay who participated in the last thread, so not sure what's up with that.

food ChestRockwell • 7 months ago • 97%

Folks, [it's good](https://schoolsforchiapas.org/store/coffee-corn-and-agricultural/zapatista-coffee/)! I'm about 2/3 through the 3lb bag I ordered and just threw down for a 5lb. Eventually I need to order some in bulk to save on shipping, but I need to figure out how I'll store multiple bags (I got a large container for the beans)  Some thoughts for the comrades out there: I think my favorite is in the moka pot. It's got a very rich body, a bit of acidity which I like, and still is nice and mellow. However, my daily drip machine also does nicely with it. It's got less acidity in that, more just a mellow and easy to drink blend. I do have an Aero Press, but I haven't tried with that yet. I should bust it out sometime though. Also, it smells fucking phenomenal. Every day when I open the container now, it's like, god damn that's good coffee. In summary, it's [damn fine coffee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvs7pmISe8I).

theory ChestRockwell • 8 months ago • 100%

## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. Finally, please **feel free to drop in at any point.** We're well along, but the old discussions remain open and I'd still love to have anyone who wishes to join. ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) [Week 2](https://hexbear.net/post/1631798) [Week 3](https://hexbear.net/post/1679516) ## Chapter 9 - So, overview, this seems like a great examination of the protests in Brasil in 2013. In particular, we're going to see some strategic/tacital wins by the MPL, but also some big L's and the shadows of reactionary stuff to come. I think the biggest question I had reading this was "where are the hinge points" in this movement? Where could the MPL have done something differently? - I do think p. 137 gives us an interesting potential historical comparison to student loans - the "onramp" is giving a lot of lead time to potential action, but is the Debt Collective (or other orgs) planning something strategic here? Feels like when you know when the government is going to do a bad thing, there is a potential window... - I also just want to give the anarchists in MPL credit - radical consensus is work, and I think Bevins gets that across as well. - I do think rotating spokespeople is not a _bad_ thing, but it's also like, I feel like division of labor could be good here, instead of constantly cycling spokespeople. I see the allure of "prefigurative organization" but the chapter really brings out the work that goes into this, and it sure as hell feels like a real lift. - The whole "put us in meetings" attitude feels very Graeber - instead of doing something, call a committee. - Meanwhile, I do think the MPL's recognition that chaos in the city can lead to openings is good. This isn't pure adventurism – it's a strategic opening of a contested space. The trouble is, as we'll see, you aren't the only ones contesting.… - 139 – letting violence happen is of course a strategy by the reactionary forces to build pressure from "outside" any zone of conflict to "resolve" it through state violence. Obviously this is just a music festival, but this feels especially relevant with "crime panics" in the imperial core… - The initial protest action accomplisehs a very direct goal - getting their desired image on the front page of the papers - but the consent machine comes in here hard ("vandalism" and the like - p.141). Is this the best that can be done absent a left-wing consent factory? Or is there a way to ensure that you can go beyond just producing images for the media? - Good news is that this worked – the "chaos remained within the levels they desired" is as hell of a description. I wonder what sorts of contingencies MPL had for chaos that got "out of control" (either too much reactionary boot, or too much violence from their affiliates)… - I also think this strategy of chaos has a key parallel in the recent freeway protests in LA over Gaza. Shutting down traffic was great, but it feels like there wasn't any potential place to further rally/build the disruption into a broader movement – however, perhaps that's just because of the limits of imperial core action. - I do love the left punching "gut instincts" of both the media and PT here. I feel like I'm not qualified to speak to the PT's bonafides, but is it possible that an early embrace of MPL by the PT might have helped here? Obviously that's wishcasting (would be like dems capitulating to gaza protestors - it's probably not happening, which is all the more tragic), but unlike the dems, the PT is ostensibly a workers party? My marginal note is simply "libification". - We do have some slinging of adventurism here. I get the concern of the organizers around the assault of the cop (though ironically, probably vindicated by the reaction), but also isn't this the moment where you really push? I'm conflicted, to say the least, since it's so easy for media to rally around an injured/killed officer, so until the violence really kicks off and you have a true mass movement, it's a very dangerous game. - I do get the position of the PT members and institutional forces on an intellectual level here, but I'm just very sympathetic to the ACAB attitude - So interestingly, even though the assault of the officer was priming the pump for the movement to get gutted, somehow the over-reaction of the cops and violent attack really undo the sympathy that the cops had. - I'm very empathetic to Mayara here – feeling like you failed and lost all control of the protest/organization. The fact that the people back home could have a better view of things was good, and I think one thing that we can all take from this is it helps to have org members who **aren't** on the streets so that they can get a different picture (i.e. how's it playing on cable news). Not to say the consent machine is something we shoukld listen to, but it feels like there's an important role to play here? - We sort of see this in the reactionary presenter being forced to support the protests. The action in the streets matters, and knowing when to tell your members to disengage and just try to survive, rather than try to rebuild ranks, I think is an important judgment - I don't have much to say about Bevins' posting, but the "global connection" here feels like an extension of the general media connection? ## Chapter 10 - I think I like the MPL rejecting good/bad protest distinction, but it's kind of tragic they had to have so many meetings after such a brutal crackdown. There's moments where these meetings come up that feel almost farcical. Of course, that's not to say there's not a role for strategy meetings, but radical consensus among group members feels like a brutal ask, especially after getting tear gassed. Is this where perhaps the horizontal structure needs to give way? I get that they're anarchists committed to prefigurative politics, but I think just even a small select committee on riot tactics might help? - Again, I'm far more ML, and I'm trying to be sympathetic to our anarchist comrades – I almost think Bevins is kind of pillorying them a bit with the meetings thing – maybe a bit unfair? - Here, I think we're running into a huge hinge point – the growth of the protests and the addition of reactionary sports fans (not the "ultras") - **What is to be done here**, I think, is my big question. The MPL members tried to educate these guys, they didn't give a fuck. What is the next step? Was a chance missed? - 155 – Bevins with a key passage on the fact that the meaning of these protests is up to debate. How do you secure your narrative over the consent machine/reactionaries? Bevins, himself, is obviously contributing to this history/narrative as well. - I'll just note – Hannah Arendt has a passage in _The Human Condition_ that's especially relevant here: he who acts never quite knows what he is doing, that he always becomes 'guilty' of consequences he never intended or even foresaw, that no matter how disastrous and unexpected the consequences of his deed he can never undo it, that the process he starts is never consummated unequivocally in one single deed or event, and that its very meaning never discloses itself to the actor but only to the backward glance of the historian who himself does not act" (233). - How do we fight for our narrative – especially in the journalistic/immediate aftermath of an event? The long term picture will always be contested, but how do you prevent the movement from becoming about something else? - I love how MPL was ready with people who had done the reading and homework – how do we foster that kind of attitude here, so when you get in a position to speak, you can do so effectively? More book clubs? - I guess another question I have here – what's more important? How do we grow a movement while avoiding the cooption/dilution of the message? I feel like MLM thought has some disciplinary apparatuses unavaialble to a group like MPL, but the question of how to stay on message/purpose when the movement is decentralized is, I think, a key weakness of horizontalism here. How do you deal with wreckers? - 157 – Bevins is of course aware of the constructed nature of all these narratives. Being clear-eyed and non-precious about this is important – it's not about "truth" here, it's about winning, right? I'm thinking of [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory)'s comment about veganism from last week, coming more and more down on "results are more important than means." - A real line up of sicko groups here – we can see the state department/reactionary capital influence at play as well. Bevins picking up on some real bad vibes. - And of course these reactionary groups are going to try and promote their message as well - the MBL->MPL thing is especially gross, but typical of these types. - I still wonder what is to be done about the police strategic withdrawl. CHAZ might have had some possibilities (though I think here, having a disciplined core of armed members of a vanguard is probably important), but it's really a huge issue – the strategic evacuation of state power to try and reinscribe the state feels like a big obstacle for all groups trying to do prefigurative OR revolutionary politics. - Brief detour to Turkey and the potential state department fingerprints. Ironically, it's not fully wrong, but also, at least Bevins seems to make the argument the Brazil movement (until the addition of right wing groups to the protests, at least) was organic left wing sentiment from the ground up. I'm inclined to believe, but any thoughts otherwise? - The outcome, as we know, probably served the State Department and the blob. - The MPL won! This feels very "at what cost" though. Also, what do you do after? - Was the final demonstration a mistake? The reactionaries coming out here seems like another big hinge point. ## Chapter 11 - The role of digital shit here is especially weird – spoiler alert, this anonymous dude has zero ideology and is just scraping some random shit from Facebook. Again, how do you anti-message/discipline against this? - Of course, none of the demands are material politics. Is this an area to perhaps push on? - Reminded of Donna Haraway in "Modest Witness@Second Millenium" where she cites Tarawek's idea of the "culture of no culture" and its privelege. - The message muddling continues. How does a horizontally organized movement stop the incorporation of some of this crazy reactionary stuff. The "extensions" of the material politics (hospitals, schools) need to somehow get adopted, but then stuff like "anti-corrpution" probably needs to go, by my reckoning. Is it about returning to a crude materialism, perhaps? - 166 - Bevins seems to agree as well. - Big bungle in messaging – I feel like the left now is _better_ about not giving reactionaries fuel, but it's still always a danger – feels like again, it sucks having a division of labor, but it also feels like so much energy is spent building consensus in this movement you have unforced errors. At least, that's how Bevins is painting it. - The claim of a "conservative" origin to the MPL movement must have felt brutal. I think in these past two chapters, we've seen that narrative (unfortunately?) does matter to these movements and you have to have the means to take control. - A quick turn to Turkey, and the state dictated "resolution" of Gezi park. - And Egypt - here we do see the role of international actors very clearly in the end of Morsi. - I appreciate the admission from Gehad "we were played." I'm not sure if they did much "wrong" though. Would a consolidation _with_ the Muslim Brotherhood have perhaps changed the outcome here after the coup? - I think again, returning to the MPL on 171, we have a real question of "agility" in the face of rapidly changing circumstances, and 12 hour meetings feel like a brutal ask on top of rapidly changing narrative, protest, and political conditions. - The coalition always fractures– trying to reorganize was too Leninist, and this, unfortunately, feels like the moment where as a ML I'm just screaming. I would love input from Anarchist comrades here though - what is to be done in this kind of scenario? Is Bevins painting you all into a corner unfairly? I feel like when blood's in the streets and there's reactionaries claiming your movement, you can't be in a 12 hour struggle session, you gotta get people out there (either with a message, or with fists in the streets). - Left unity is very hard, is what this book is showing. - 172-3 – the uploader of the Anonymous video is just a totally empty vessel. - Voters don't act rationally of course, but I do feel like there's a real question of how to push a regime left through protest without opening up the door to really reactionary forces. ## Next Reading (2/21) -- Chapter 12, 13, 14 (edited -- I'm working through my notes right now, 2/20, see you folks all in a day!) I'll be taking a week and a half off - I have the paper I'm writing due next week, and also have a bunch of other stuff happening next week. I'll see you all on the 16th to continue with Part 2! [@MF_COOM@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/MF_COOM) [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo) [@Vampire@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Vampire)

theory ChestRockwell • 8 months ago • 100%

## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) [Week 2](https://hexbear.net/post/1631798) ## Chapter 5 - Short chapter on some movements in the west - Occupy, the movements in Spain and Greece. I feel like Bevins already has made it clear he's more skeptical of these movements in the imperial core, but is perhaps radical consensus (98) a serious barrier to expanding the movement? - Follow up – is this a weakness of prefigurative politics? I'm thinking about that post from the_dunk_tank on Graeber from a few days ago, and are there perhaps limits to prefigurative politics' material effects? - "Discursive Shifts" (99) produced by Occupy, etc., but no real material change. Is this a consequence of the imperial core? Design of cities, suburbs, etc? Thinking forward to BLM, was 2020 the same story, but perhaps even more present to the reactionary mind? - P. 100 - Libertarians for pot, but not willing to engage police, name a more iconic combo. But seriously, we see again a vanguard model in Chile, versus the less effective Brazilian occupying - I feel like Bevins's arguments for a vanguard continue to remain compelling. - We have our first appearance (by my count) of Anonymous. While I love all our posting soldiers here, how "useful" is a digital hactivism strategy? Feels kind of like vaporware (especially with things like wikileaks, etc.) not doing much, but perhaps there's places for stuff like this? - Chilean model – aligning student activism with indigenous activism feels like a really cool strategy, and perhaps are there intersectional/solidarity movements that could be produced in America/the west? Or is this something that just works in the subaltern/developing world? - "She's hot" (103). Should we be finding our hot comrades? Is hasanabi thought vindicated here? On a more serious note though – we need hot people who also have disciplined messaging, and I'm thinking back to that one moderator of /r/antiwork that kind of blew things up by being a terrible messenger. Public facing people have to have skills, I think, is the main takeaway here, and then being hot of course doesn't hurt. ## Chapter 6 - Twitter brain, the chapter. I think the techno-liberation critique has been done before, but any thoughts on Bevins's analysis here on 106-108? - Decentralization, on its own, doesn't really disrupt, I think is the takeaway here, but any other key payoffs? - Two great sickos on page 109 with Sullivan and Kristoff. I was also kind of taken away with the 2009 twitter, and thought maybe something would happen from it (started grad school in 2010 and really was kind of on the border of drinking the kool aid. Stepped away, but seeing this reminds me of a younger me...) - 110 – this page hit hard. "You cannot have Rwanda again because information..." I call bullshit just on the grounds of Gaza today. - Also, things can always get worse ("situations even worse than the governance of a stable authoritarian state..") - Seeing these techno-optimist takes ("The Che Guevara of the 21st Century is the network") really fucking kill me. Coming from Hillary Clinton's state department as well, anyone else taking psychic damage here? I think that seeing the inner mindset of the imperial machine here – their embrace of this stuff – suggests that there's real hard limits on their material/revolutionary effects, but maybe the master's tools can be used to dismantle things? - We also begin to get the reaction to the movements in Egypt - consolidation and the organization of the right against more "liberalizing" forces. - Electoralism appears to take a bit of a L here – any thoughts on what could have been done in Egypt? It also feels like a place where typical "liberal" electoral reforms (ranked choice) might have fixed things but voters are weird freaks - State department and "Gay Girl in Damascus." The psyop stuff here is rather bleak, and I really don't know what to do since my own personal position online is to radically accept people's self-claimed identities, but this stuff is just very classic internet. Bored graduate students larping, the real thing that ruins online discourse. What is to be done about this, I honestly don't know… ## Chapter 7 - This chapter is very bleak to me – the role of cops and paramilitary forces in Brazil really starts to show the forces of reaction churning up. - 118 - the "embarrased right" thing reminds me of the "permanent democrat majority" thinking in America post 2008. Why is this kind of teleological thinking so appealing to liberals? - Putting it another way – how many times do we have to teach this lesson about reactionaries, old man! - The deforestation and getting caught as cost of business (119) is really bleak. I think of all the posts from the official pod of the community about wage theft and firing unionizing employees as well – much of this stuff is already priced in. Can we use the administrative state at all to try and agitate for space for organization, or is this an "accelerationists proven right" kind of scenario? - We see the arrival of conservative/evangelical reaction in Brazil (122). We all know the marxist critique of religion, but I wonder why the prosperity gospel took root in Brazil, since at least some Catholic countries have adopted liberation theology modes within their left groups. - The anti-urban stuff feels very "15-minute cities" and I wonder if Raymond Williams's analysis of country/city might be relevant here… - At the end of the day, this material reality (killers hired to clear land) seems like something you can't really fight with the internet. I feel like seeing the right's willingness to employ violence here really reminds us that Mao is not wrong about power… ## Chapter 8 - Shifting to Turkey now, the inciting incident is the transformation of the urban space (demolition of a cafe and theater). On the one hand, it might feel like this is less immediate than a guy setting himself on fire in protest, but there's something more universal about it I think. However, in the imperial core, there's so few of these places left – the process has basically run its course and there's just Starbucks instead of the local shop. However, I feel like these battles are still worth fighting, if only because there's been dive bars, pubs, and cafes that have loomed large in my life... - I should note there's also another even more immediate concern with the defense of green spaces by environmentalists. I do like the way this protest draws together several groups, but I feel like there's a missing class… the working class, no? - 127 – I think that here we see the "good" side of twitter, allowing for a bypass of state media, but it just feels like such a shitty version of what could be (and perhaps I'm looking with hindsight of 2024 twitter). Still, it feels like it's important to recognize the role of state media and the Consent Manufacturing Machine in the west as well – I feel like Bevins misses a comparison here. - Another great historical dive for Turkey. Not going to say much here except that it's great to have all these glosses. - 129 - weakening the military and strengthening the police seems like something to always watch for. Interesting that this appears to have been part of their "liberalization" though… - We also see here the role of the Saudis in positioning Turkey in the Syria conflict, as well as a player in Egypt and other countries post-protests. - 2013 – we have unplanned protests in Turkey that are drawing crowds and eyes. I think again, the question we should ask, are where are the "hinge points" in this protest movement, since each of these starts with what I feel like are really positive goals/causes. What goes wrong, I think, is what we need to keep watching for. - One good thing is the immediate formation of a kind of hard core – the "Taksim Solidarity" organization seems like a smart move, but I think horizontalism runs into some hard structural barriers again (who is part of this org..) - A strategic question – what's the "line" for groups we should try to broadly engage/incorporate into a strategy of protest/revolt, and where's the line where you kick out nazi scum? Obviously nazis, but what about (for instance) pro pot libertarians? Any more hardcore MLM's got any thoughts on this? Or Ancoms? While solidarity is easy on Hexbear, I feel like this illustrates how hard it is IRL and I'm wondering what is to be done? We don't want to (especially at a hinge point) be so purity focused that we discard useful liberals, after all. Are the Anonymous mask trolls useful in the moment? Where's the line, basically? - I will say, perhaps some of this also reflects the bougie nature of the Turkish protests. - Sports culture – this is actually an insane twist i wasn't ready for. Any thoughts on ultras/hooligans? I wonder if there's a way to build more committed leftist sports groups, as well. - I appreciate the Castro shout out, and I do think not all sports need to be reactionary, so this is very cool. - What can the "petit-bourgeoisie cultural fair" do to better support the hard core people fighting on the front lines of protests like this? - It feels like real human connection comes from being fucked up by cops together – is there any way to forge this though without violence? Class consciousness is just so hard to create… - "the language was nearly identical" – the similarities here are provocative – were the material conditions of neoliberalism allowing this, or is it really something unique to Twitter? - 134-5 - we love to see the intelligensia/PMC coming to the defense of the regime here, absolutely disgusting stuff (and more and more common – love that Gaza consent manufacturing) - The use of the language of the left to shore up the right is definitely a key feature of these protests as well.. - "Who represents us"? This is a key question the chapter ends with, and perhaps again a structural limit of horizontalism... ## Next Week: Chapter 9-11 (ending right at the end of Part 1) [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo) [@Vampire@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Vampire)

theory ChestRockwell • 8 months ago • 100%

## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. ## Previous Posts [Week 1](https://hexbear.net/post/1590151) ## Chapter 2 - Early 00's leftism. We have appearances from Klein, Adbusters, and anti WTO protests. While this isn't going to be the focus of the chapter, perhaps we should reflect on how/why the anti-war movement was so impotent, even in 2003? - Any thoughts on Mayara's or Fernandos's stories? - The 90's punk scene in Brazil was informed, reading "Proudhon, Kropotkin, and Bakunin" - and it really sounds like they were doing some cool praxis ("verdurada" sounds cool to me!). Can we imagine a current version of something like this? Is there anything? Also, shoutout to Anarchic Menstruation, that's a great band name. - Similarly, Graeber makes an appearance here, showing a serious commitment to "doing" the future anarchist society. I feel like perhaps there was a moment when maybe these emergent anarchist movements could have taken the wheel – what held them back? Was it that the internet wasn't yet real life (this was the phbb era, after all)? I'm not convinced that "prefiguration politics" is necessarily bad, but did horizontalism contribute as well? Thoughts? - Same question a different way: Graeber says there's a "rich and growing panopoly of organizational instruments… all aimed at creating forms of democratic process that allow initiatives to rise from below and attain maximum effective solidarity without sifiling dissenting voices." OK, so what happened then? Any thoughts on how/why these tools were never fully realized in political change? - Another Graeber moment worth lingering on - "Anarchists could never be very good at war, but they could flourish in peace." Was the war on terror the end of the brief window? So we see an emergent Anarchism in the 90's in response to the brief "end of the cold war" and "global peace" that quickly loses any chance at becoming dominant due to the global war on terror? - Do we generally agree with Fernando's analysis re: social democracy and the developing world? - Thoughts about Bevins's history of the PT's origins? The ML/Catholic alliance (summoning Jack Chick) is a classic, but I'm just curious - is there any way we could imagine a mass party in the US that aligns religious forces with the left, or is that well impossibly poisoned? My instinct is the latter, but I'd love some thoughts if we want to get into _Hell on Earth_ territory. - Marx being proven right again: "The end of the dictatorship had changed the political system; but the economic structure of society remained largely the same as before the 1964 coup." It's almost as if material conditions matter more than ideological structures.… - Inside neoliberalism are three wolves, according to Fernando – Authoritarinism, Fascism or Technocracy devoid of politics. This feels broadly right, but do we agree that we should defend democracy to protect "classes without property"? I think there's a compelling harm reduction argument, but it is an interesting question – is it worth defending democracy even if democracy doesn't do anything for you? - "Politics, he lamented, ad become _marketing_." This is why the forum podcast is _Citations Needed_. Is this trend worse? Why or why not? Any interventions we can imagine to break the deadlock if we want to defend democracy? - The Salvador student movement and bus protests perhaps show an important lesson that we might continue to see going forwards – which demands do you take to avoid fracturing the coalition? Any thoughts on the strategy of the PCdoB? - Bloomer notes – how do you keep the momentum so you can "win" the next time the issue comes up if you have compromised? - Direct action gets the goods, and what can we learn from the MPL? How do we feel about consensus politics here? What about Horizontality (either in the MPL organization or in Argentina in 2001) - End of history - we know it, love it, and might have listened to the _If Books Could Kill_ episode on it. Any thoughts on Bevins's analysis of it (and the first world neoliberal turn of the 90's and early 00's)? MLK's analysis of the white liberal appears here as well, and I think Bevins's double vision in this chapter between the developing world and first world is interesting, especially when we consider the "ideology of progress" and teleology of western liberalism. Thoughts on his comparisons? - To return to a question above, was the "End of History" a missed window for Anarchists? If we had 2000's era internet in 1990, might things have been different? - Bevins is doing a bit of cheeky political theology here, any critiques? I'm glad he uses Lowith instead of Schmitt, but any further thoughts on the role of religion in these teleologies? Alternatively, the orientalism/Islamophobia of the 90's neoliberal movement is coming up as well, and we could perhaps reflect on the role of this new "other" before the global war on terror fully organized the post-end-of-history moment. ## Chapter 3 - Any thoughts on Bevins's account of Lula's government over the 00's? Also, Bevins's frank assessment: "This was not the realization of the socialist revolution..." etc. - Great materialist analysis for how kids moving abroad and becoming correspondents reproduces "neocolonial dynamics." Too bad there's no names he calls out though. - Tiririca – what do we think about the absurdist electoralism? This feels very of the late 00's moment (think peak Stewart/Colbert). Is this a good strategey? - However, we're going to pause on Brazil here – so any last thoughts on the MPL or Brazillian leftism in 2011 before we turn to Tunisia and the Arab Spring? ## Chapter 4 - I'll just say that I really like Bevins's turn to longer historical roots, especially since while I know the broad strokes of decolonization in Africa, I'll admit I know jack about Tunisia, so this little primer was helpful. - Can I just say the phrase "activated their Leninist cadres" sounds really cool? But also, what can we learn of the success in mobilizing here? Compare, perhaps, to protests in 2020 (around, similarly, an outrage and death)? - I appreciate also Bevins's accounts of the cost (physical/human) of protest. Something to consider here and going forwards - how do we prepare ourselves (and our comrades) for the potential violence that will be unleashed upon them? - Any thoughts on the events of the Tunisian revolt? Unionism seems to be a key factor in my read, but any other thoughts here? - And now we turn to Egypt and Tahir Square. Again, Bevins with a bit of a flashback for us first, anything here we want to draw attention to? - Neoliberal "reforms" fail to deliver democracy, who would have thought.… - 78 - Bevins notes that the protest group Kefava "flowered into this small space Mubarak opened for legitimate civil society, as well." While we know civil society doesn't equal a communist or anarchist one, is it worth fighting for it as anarchists/communists/socialists/leftists on the grounds these spaces allow for organizing? Or are they too easily manipulated? - Also, strikes and organizing continue to play a role – is this, perhaps, the real "driver" of change, rather than protest? - There is also, again, a victim/martyr, Khaled Said. How important is this, and why is it that (as just one example) George Floyd didn't translate to any real change? Media apparatus? Shitty first world people? Lack of the strike/organizational infrastructure? - I can't help but feel there was a real window here for change in a better direction - the mass movement, the "people and the army are one hand" (82). Any "hinge points" that we can locate going forwards? Any alternative narratives we want to emphasize here too? Bevins is being pretty optimistic about these early days (and to be fair, it was a vibe). - 82 – I like how Bevins is clear eyed that this was not a nonviolent protest (indeed, there's a shift from protest to battle here) - 82/83 - the refusal of the people/protestors/revolutionaries to "take anything" but retreat back to Tahir Sqare. Bungle? Or smart? Thoughts? Is this the legacy of Occupy, perhaps? - Was it perhaps just that the State Department got caught flat footed and the media took the initiative here? There's definitely a way to read P.84 and on that way, but I'm not entirely sure that's the case.… Also, the media's shoehorning of their own narrative perhaps suggests some consent manufacturing was going on, even if there's not a coordinated effort.… - Horizontality and leaderlessness returns here, but how do we feel about "we were anarchists, without knowing we were anarchists" versus our Brazillian punk rockers who are reading Kropotkin and co? - I will say here on P.86, there's an important caveat to protest repression/fighting that Bevins recognizes - you need to have someone who's willing to say "enough" and do a coup/grab the leash – generals have to refuse to fire on protestors, basically. - Lybia and Syria, time for some big Obama L's. Bevins suggests there's a "critical mass" of sorts that Egypt and Tunisia achieved that Lybia and Syria didn't – let's attend to this section a bit. - LOTR comparisons are less cringe than Harry Potter, but oof here - Bevins being clear-eyed about "no-fly zone"'s meaning and consequences here. Also, the TrueAnon Rule is affirmed "If you have weapons of mass destruction, don't give them up." Are the lessons "learned" from Lybia perhaps at play in why protest has become less powerful as well? - Any thoughts on Syria here? Bevins is pretty short, though perhaps because there was never a true mass movement here, but he's pretty quick to just move past it (perhaps because it's "sectarian"?) - Bahrain and a bit of a "throwback" (indeed, unaccountable monarchy is very old-school) here. The saddest part is it does feel like this would have been the "answer" to sectarian collapse, but the lack of air is clearly a weakness of protest movements here. Anything we should note and watch for in terms of what happens here? Any thoughts on the US foreign policy implications Bevins attends to? ## Next Week: Chapters 5-8 [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo)

anime ChestRockwell • 8 months ago • 100%

www.youtube.com

Show is very fun, with just wholesome torture and reactions. Yes, the entire show is just the same bit, but it's a fun bit and entertaining. 

theory ChestRockwell • 8 months ago • 100%

Hi Folks, I'll be posting the format and resources at the top here each week. Scroll on down for discussion questions! I'm going to have, perhaps, a few more this week since we're getting a sense for Bevins's argument, scope, and interests. If you want me to provide this many every week, just let me know, otherwise I'll probably start trimming back, before the last couple weeks just leaving it up to everyone in the conversation to pose questions/discussion topics. Also, *please feel free to add additional questions, areas for discussion, etc. as you please*. I'm providing some starting points, but if there's things that you notice I've missed/want to talk about -- I'm very interested in any conversations people want to have. ## Format - We're reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - Libgen link to an ebook [here](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - Here's [Bevins' appearance on Trueanon](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading), which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people would prefer, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the book for access in an assignment or whatever. Week 1 Questions ## Introduction - Thoughts on Bevins' depiction of the assault on protesters in Sao Paulo? It's obviously a gripping start, but what do we make of his conclusions that this was "something new"? Also, perhaps most interesting to me - his argument there's a direct connection between the protests of 2013 and the rise of Bolsinaro. - Solidarity, affinity, and mutual recognition seem to be the core of the "protest" story that Bevins is telling, but clearly there's limits to the connection of the internet. Is internationalism possible? How do we balance local concerns (and differences) against sentiments like "Turkey and Brazil are one" which would have been wonderful if both didn't end up reactionary regimes at the end of the decade. Clearly Bevins plans to go into detail on some of these questions, but any thoughts right now while he's putting it all out there in his intro? - "A certain set of approaches were morally and tactically privileged from 2010 to 2020. To varying degrees you often heard that these were leaderless, 'horizontally' organized, 'spontaneous,' digitally collaborated mass protests in city streets of public squares. They took forms that were said to 'prefigure' the society they were meant to help bring about" (14) Are we still stuck in this paradigm? Or are we moving beyond it? Also, why is it so difficult to go outside, comrades? - On that note, Bevins' argument, as I see it: "And then after a set of actions is taken, it is a very different and quite treacherous journey entirely to correcting the injustice, or to improving society. That last part has been tricky to get right since 2010. It was my hope that by carefully analyzing that chain of human decisions and consequences, and by looking at the events of the decade in chronological order, some lessons might emerge." Let's use this as a guiding principle. What can we, as leftists on Hexbear take from this? I think that we should perhaps approach this with two goals in mind: - Think about tactics and strategy as leftists – what's worth keeping from the 2010-2020 decade of protest? What should be rejected and fought against? - A list of potential rules/strategies/ways forward that we find in this book that we can bring to our own orgs, friends, etc. Think of it as a new list of "Trueanon Rules" perhaps that we could compile from Bevins's journalism? - Some additional material on Bevins' methodology: - Key questions: "What led to the protest explosion? What were its goals? Were they achieved? If they weren't achieved, why not? - Followups: "What would you tell a teenager in Tanzania or Mexico or Kyrgyzstan, who may live through a political explosion, or might attempt to change life in her country? What lessons would you draw from your own experiences and impart to them? - Understanding people on the ground vs. _longue duree_- what do you all think of it? Is this, perhaps, a strategy guide for "Weeks when decades happen"? Does this sound useful for us? - Bevins' criteria/scope: I like them, but do you think there's any blind spots in ignoring the First World? - Any other spicy takes on this intro? It's pretty standard for a book like this (indeed, the main advantage it has over the "If Books Could Kill" canon is that at least the opening anecdote actually happened and is relevant to the topic!), but if there's stuff you want to discuss further, go for it. - Finally, some people forgot the trueanon rule: "Never talk to journalists, they're just like cops." Bevins seems cool so far though, so we'll give him (and the people who talked to him) a pass for now. ## Chapter 1 - There's definitely something of a Benjaminian argument in the first pages of the chapter. I'm actually writing as I read so he might actually cite "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" at some point here, but regardless, to what degree do we agree with his media technology argument (his footnote is just Plato in the _Phaedrus_, and he cites Anderson's _Imagined Communities_)? His argument that protest doesn't make sense without mass media is, generally, compelling I think, but do you all agree? - More broadly: How "deterministic" are these technologies and how much agency do we have to guide/grasp hold of them? How do we move towards the "new" forms of protest/resistance/exercise of power that we don't yet know? - Obviously this is broad historical background (table setting, of sorts, for the meat of the book) as well as a contrast to the upcoming focus on non-First World areas, but is there anything useful in the New Left movements that Bevins describes here? Any strategies or lessons from 21-28 that are still today? Especially when taken in contrast with Lenin's approach, what stands out? - One question that, perhaps, we should consider, is the "onboarding" of new members in response to mass growth - how do you do it without compromising/losing your organizational structure/cohesion? SDS getting flooded is an interesting story that might well allow us to consider this past year's integration into the Fediverse more generally (though we don't need to deeply consider this meta convo, I think there's an interesting echo/rhyme here). (P.24) - Another historical note I like is the attention to the material conditions of Tsarist russia - the "particular set of skills" that your environment creates. - I've worked on figuration/prefiguration, so if anyone is lost here, just holler and I'll try to gloss this section as clearly as possible (though I honestly think Bevins does a great job). - Old Left (29-36) – A lot of classic Hexbear and Trueanon favs/bits here. What's one thing you'd take away from the Old Left strategy (either in Europe or the Third World)? - Fun question - how much of this story do you think the average lib knows? - Revolutionary Truisms (30) – any of these ringing true to you? Ones to emphasize? - I think at this moment it's also appropriate to attend to Bevins's brief recapitulation of the specific strategies around the middle east (33-34). It's short, but I like he acknowledges the role of US policy in Egypt's experience of 68. - 68 more generally. This is another "failure" of revolution, what do we make of Bevins's analysis? - At the end of this section, Bevins returns to the role of media - here in papering over the trauma of 68. How do we learn from these moves by the dominant culture/ideology? - The fall of the soviet union and the myth of "clamoring for the arrival of capitalism" (38). How do we like Bevins's history here? Also, is this perhaps another "prefiguration" of the kind of thing Bevins saw unfolding over the 2010's? What can we take from this account? Anything that jumps out at you? - Defining neoliberalism - any critiques of this working definition? ## Next Week's Readings (1/17) -- Chapters 2 - 4 [@chicory@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/chicory) [@Maoo@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Maoo)

theory ChestRockwell • 9 months ago • 100%

## Format - Reading 2-3 chapters a week (some are very short). I'm going to be shooting for 50-60 pages a week, give or take. I'm going to be getting page counts from the libgen ebook, so that's why readings will be done by chapter. - Hopefully we'll be done in 7 or 8 weeks - Feel free to get whatever copy you wish, I'll also post the ebook onto Perusall for your convenience and highlighting. - I'll plan to post on Wednesday each week with the readings we're discussing and our future schedule as I work it out. I'll also @ mention anyone who posts in this thread in future weeks. ## Resources - [Libgen link to ebook ](https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=B20CC6A7700F0BAD84AFF40B3C832BF9) - If you want to get a sense for what's coming, [here's Bevins' appearance on Trueanon, ](https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/burn-after-reading) which is part of why I wanted to do this book club - [Perusall ](https://app.perusall.com/join/rockwell-rn6m4) – if you want to flag passages for discussion, I'll do my best to check this before I post my weekly post. If people wish, I can also make weekly assignments here, but I've opened up the whole book in one assignment so that people can read at their own pace. A bit more on my motivations: I'm writing a paper on protest (and its failures) so I actually wanted to incorporate some of Bevins' work. I'll probably post some questions and thoughts of my own to get our discussion started here, along with anything anyone submits to the Perusall site. I figure for our first meeting, we'll do the Introduction and Chapter 1. **Post here if you're interested in participating so I can @ you once we start** I figure I'll post the first discussion next week, as long as folks are ready for it. Otherwise, I'll wait until the 17th.

food ChestRockwell • 9 months ago • 100%

Excited to try. What are you preferred brewing methods for this stuff. Does it go well in a moka pot? I have a boring drip machine for my day to day, but have you done any aeropress or other methods with it that are wildly delicious? Also, any other good coffee roasters out there worth supporting? 

politics ChestRockwell • 9 months ago • 100%

inthesetimes.com

Article I saw thanks to a repost from Nima  . Shitting on Red Scare is something I'm always here for. I think the core is this: >Maybe there’s a kind of gravity to the slide, the black hole of fascism sucking toward it all the loose particles of those whose commitments were never complex or whose convictions were snapped by despair. And the accusation that arises with almost every left-to-right slider, that they’re sell-outs, just doing it for the money? Yes, some are. Yes, and—because even when it starts that way, the transaction is transformational.

music ChestRockwell • 10 months ago • 100%

thegreatvorelli.bandcamp.com

Some Blowback Bloomer music for you all.        

Comics ChestRockwell • 11 months ago • 100%

youtu.be

I'm up to episode 6, lullaby in frogland. This is where it really kicks off imo. Show is so good folks.

music ChestRockwell • 11 months ago • 100%

youtu.be

It's hard to keep the faith sometimes comrade. Just remember, you're not alone. 

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 12 months ago • 100%

shopblowback.com

Get your tactical espionage podcast merch.

music ChestRockwell • 12 months ago • 100%

youtu.be

Song is pretty based tho

Comics ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

>he has eaten the pancake

videos ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

youtu.be

Perhaps cytube in early October? But regardless, enjoy the fall and remember, folks don't tend to pass through Pottsfield. We'll all join them eventually. Bonus,  shows up in episode 7.

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

CW - Oglaf has plenty of NSFW sex material on other pages  , but this is SFW.

I don't want random techbros coming in, hence why I'm posting on Den. I hope this is ok. I'm teaching an online composition class this summer. I got two essays from students that cited sources that don't exist. I called them out on it. Here's what happened. One copped to using Bard, but then sent a second essay that still clearly reeks of gen AI or other horseshit. The other copped to using a GenAI search engine unwittingly, and has tried to claim they've read things that, by all accounts, they haven't. Normally, I would have just failed these students for writing hundreds of words on material that doesn't exist. But I really wanted them to go beyond a basic cop and explain their reasons for using this. This is in part since I have administrative duties around GenAI this year in our program. So I wanted to get data for my fellow instructors (i.e. here's what the student did, here's how we can design better assignments that both teach more carefully and also are harder to use GenAI on, etc. etc.) Instead, I've just hit a brick wall from them. They're insisting that it was only a research error, even though by all accounts, these essays shouldn't exist since the majority is written on things that just literally aren't out there. Again, they wrote about things that don't exist as if they do. That's GenAI in a nutshell. It's some of the most blatant shit. And these students are still trying to justify their work. What bugs me most, however, isn't the students. It's the fact that technology like this was thrown out into the ether without any fucking guard rails. These students don't realize the problems with it, so they're fucking themselves. And while maybe they would have found some other way to do this kind of lazy work pre-ChatGPT, the accessibility of these LLM models means that more students will do stupid shit like this and fail, instead of trying to learn. I'm very doomer about this stuff, not because of some AI takeover, but the total enshittification of everything. The  episode on it was very good on the other serious labor implications as well. However, there's also a ton of potential added labor or shittiness in the affected fields. After all, my instructors will have to work more for the same amount of pay OR just not bother policing it. Either outcome is terrible. While I'm going to do my damndest to try and help my colleagues build assignments that remain rigorous and have guiderails to avoid genAI production, the fact is, eventually it's coming for all of us. And even if it doesn't take our jobs, it's going to make us all more miserable. Because there's not the structures in place for FALGSC or anything. So we're going to lay people off, pay them less, remove some of the most human pursuits, and for what? A bot that's slightly more convenient and less accurate than wikipedia? I'd love for someone to un-doomer me about this stuff, but it's just very depressing. I needed to vent among friends. Thanks for listening folks. I'm still a  at heart, but god damn is it hard to keep up in the face of material conditions.

Comradeship // Freechat ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 88%

youtu.be

I just want to say I love our lemmygrad comrades. You've been fighting the federation wars longer than us, and I respect your  Have a good night lemmygrad. Let us all meet on the other side. https://youtu.be/9LbziknNpCE?si=4c5WN7irQYHUbsn4 Oh yeah he also has a new jam riffing on rich men north of Richmond https://youtu.be/qGNFR7pgxDY?si=ccFvZJ-paaYQYCMF

music ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

youtu.be

Well love our real leftist folk singers, don't we folks. 

podcasts ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

www.youtube.com

The credits say this was made by Acid Marxist, is that our own [@AcidMarxist@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/AcidMarxist) ? 

Introductions ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

The source of my user name for those who haven't seen _Boogie Nights_: >[Those are](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p7pSkAWAhQ) [great names](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgYKYk4GryU)! I love movies, some TV, some anime/manga, and have come to love going to concerts thanks to my partner's deep love of them. Still, I'd prefer the dark theater to the concert, if I'm being totally honest. I'm a member of the academic precariat (AKA non-tenure track faculty), though a bit of a labor aristocrat among them, since I'm unionzed at least. I generally teach writing and composition, which I actually am fairly passionate about even though I didn't get my degree in rhetoric and composition. I've been doing what I can to get some institutional clout and maybe find myself in control of a writing program someday. I'm surprised how many writing instructors still focus on grammar/style rather than larger questions of rhetoric/argument.  So as to not doxx myself, I'll just say my academic work was english literature. While I'd love a position teaching that someday, I recognize the material conditions and so have been positioning myself to be part of the humanities "moneymaker" for the university, writing. I generally don't write on Marxism because, to be frank, a bunch of marxist academics basically suck (including the ones at my institution). I discovered Marx probably 20 years ago (give or take) when I was in college in a philosophy class. We read the hits (German Ideology, Capital's "How much does a coat cost") before moving on to other stuff. I had already worked several really shit jobs though, so it really resonated with my experiences with wage work. However, at the time, I was very much the kind of "socialism is good, communism bad" liberal. I think if it hadn't been for the 2008 crash I would have probably turned into some copywriter or other "creative adjacent" worker. However, with no jobs in 2008, I decided the best thing I could do is apply to grad school. So I did, and became more and more radicalized as I saw the way that academia has been hollowed out like every other institution touched by neoliberalism. I think a combination of a graduate union strike and then COVID led to my shift from "socialist friendly liberal" to full on communist. We must  "[end this nightmare.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8D6QuLdZfY)" I'm here for the comradeship and the eclectic mix of marxists/anarchists we have here . As a sophist, I love being drawn by our various left perspectives, including the esoteric  ones. I hope someday we all get together to [sing ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHmZ-CprZ3A)[Billy Bragg songs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHmZ-CprZ3A) after the revolution. Oh, I also have two dogs I love. Sorry cat comrades. Here they are:  

games ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 100%

youtu.be

 vs.  Truly another masterpiece from the guys.

www.youtube.com

Episode 1 here: https://open.spotify.com/show/2pibBnPuHqKr07hxEMZE41 Greatest history podcast out there. Season 1 Iraq, Season 2 Cuba, Season 3 Korea! If you haven't listened yet, get on it folks. 

Socialism ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 56%

open.spotify.com

Then listen to Blowback Seasons 1-3. Then listen to Season 4. If you're not sure, here's the [trailer for Season 4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb0r5aWGkCI). I hope to see you all on the other side comrades.

chapotraphouse ChestRockwell • 1 year ago • 96%

abc7.com

Current news reports are showing it was ::: spoiler spoiler A pig who got into a domestic and shot a bunch of people  Fuck pigs :::