@sun @fediverse @deadsuperhero Not yet. But Mitra can display a "Subscribe" button and subscription terms for sub.club accounts if they start publishing a Proposal object as described in FEP-0837. Alternatively, I can add support for their custom subscription property

@deadsuperhero @fediverse @quillmatiq Protocols described in these FEPs are currency-agnostic and developers can build actual platforms and solutions on them (as I did). This is the only ongoing effort to bring a payment layer to the Fediverse - there are no alternative proposals. FEP-8c3f was withdrawn in favor of FEP-0ea0.

Okay, you didn't know about it. But now you do and it would be nice to include at least some of that information in the article.

@deadsuperhero @fediverse FEP-ef61 is what Mike was implementing and rolled out in production this summer. It's not like we didn't advertise that. All work on this FEP (and ones that precede it) was done in public channels, it's really hard to miss if you're interested in nomadic identity.

Give @weekinfediverse a follow. It provides a concise summary of what is happening in Fediverse

@quillmatiq

https://wedistribute.org/2024/03/activitypub-nomadic-identity/

In another article @deadsuperhero talked about nomadic identity and Mike Macgirvin's efforts to implement it in ActivityPub, but similarly failed to mention another project that implements it (Mitra) and the person who wrote the spec (me).

At least my work was mentioned in a footnote. In the current article it is completely ignored.

@deadsuperhero @fediverse

@deadsuperhero @fediverse You cite an abandoned project and withdrawn WebMonetization FEP and then say "most efforts have not advanced beyond the planning stages". This statement is misleading because those planning stages are far behind us. Mitra had subscriptions since 2022 and there are other projects that provide monetization options, like PeerTube Lightning plugin and PeerTube Premium Users plugin. FEP-0ea0 and FEP-0837 were published and implemented. Your co-author @quillmatiq should be well aware of these developments because we talked about it

@deadsuperhero @fediverse

Why did't you mention Mitra, the open source and fully decentralized Fediverse service that also offers paid subscriptions, and which has been around for several years?

@maegul @fediverse Some ActivityPub implementations already work as social media browsers. For example, my server can interact with microblogs, but also forums, blogs, events etc. The more activity / object types are supported, the closer software is to a browser.

@julian @nutomic When Lemmy creates a post it sends both Announce(Object) and Announce(Create(Object)). I don't know about accepting Announce(Object), but likely it does that too

@julian It might be because of what FEP-1b12 says in "Implementations" section:

>This document is written based on existing group implementations in Lemmy, Friendica, Hubzilla, Lotide and Peertube. These already federate successfully in production.

Some of these implementations may support Announce(Activity) today, but as far as I know they didn't support it when FEP-1b12 was written

@julian @trwnh @angusmcleod Announce(Object) is a boost/share/repost in Mastodon and other micro-blogging apps. I think it can't be considered a variant of FEP-1b12. And the FEP only talks about announcing activities:

>In case the incoming activity is deemed valid, the group MUST wrap it in an Announce activity, with the original activity as object

@nihilist @monero Consider the following situations:

- Bob and Arbitrator are colluding against Alice
- Bob and Arbitrator are the same person

I think this system needs a higher authority to function properly. And there's a simple non-technical solution to this problem. If you don't agree with Arbitrator's ruling, you make the case public and provide proofs. As a result, Arbitrator's reputation is destroyed.

Someone can even create a rating service similar to @kycnotme that will list arbitrators with good reputation

@pomstan

Yes.

https://github.com/discourse/discourse-activity-pub

It is currently being tested at SocialHub (though only selected topics are federated, @feps@socialhub.activitypub.rocks and a couple of others)

@monero @OrangeFren

@OrangeFren @monero Activity in Lemmy network might have subsided since the Reddit Migration, but it is certainly not dying. Today there are 768 instances with the largest one having 18469 MAUs.
The important thing about federation is that there is no downside. You get a regular forum with all benefits of a self-hosting, but now people don't have to register on it in order to participate. For example, monero.town currently has 83 MAUs, and you can access that audience for free simply by using a different software.
I previously mentioned Discourse, which has a federation plugin, but it is not the only forum engine to choose from. NodeBB is working on federation (almost finished), and Flarum too. These engines will be fully interoperable with Lemmy, and partially with micro-blogging apps like Mastodon and Threads.
So, yeah, you're right about this being an uncharted territory, but I see a lot of potential here

@OrangeFren @monero Why make a non-federated forum? You can run a Lemmy or a Discourse instance, and let people from monero.town and beyond participate in discussions. Otherwise there won't be much activity

@tedu @article_interop

Found the answer here: https://funfedi.dev/support_tables/generated/object_types/

Sharkey seems to be ignoring the name, I guess this means Misskey does that as well.

@tedu @article_interop There might be popular services where name is ignored completely but <h1> in content gracefully degrades. If that's the case, <h1> (or <h1> plus name) would be preferable.

AFAIK Mastodon doesn't have this problem and will display Article.name. I don't know about the others.

@gunnm @monero The address from profile field can be displayed near each comment. This is how tipping button works on my site.
But if you want to count tips, and do it for each comment separately, that's much more complicated. I don't know if plugin system will be powerful enough for this.

@gunnm @monero

>There is no social media using tipping as piconeros

There is, I'm using it right now. Try to click on the "fediverse" icon near my comment, and on my site you'll see a donation button.

>looking for opinions and discussion of this could be done in Monero.town

The easiest way is to convince Lemmy devs to implement profile fields: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/2411

After that you can add a machine readable XMR address to your profile

@gunnm @monero Yet another attack on open source software developers and a wake up call for everyone, especially bitcoiners. If they will fail to save these guys, Bitcoin will be officially over.

@DisgracedDoctor @monero @monerobull I think this is because monero today is a boring tool that just works. The community calmed down and many activists/shills moved to greener pastures. This is probably a good thing

If you want more activity in fediverse, you can try to get micro-blogging sector going. There are many people who are interested in monero but no organization. I've seen a couple of accounts run by projects which mostly cross-post from twitter and do not engage with audience. No follow lists. We had a xmrposter Pleroma instance, but it was shut down.

I've successfully followed it. Thank you @Danbob

@monero

@Danbob @monero Congrats. Unfortunately "Follow me" feature (there's a button at the bottom) doesn't work properly.
The popup displays @relay@meetup.events address which can't be resolved. However, @relay@www.meetup.events seems to be working.

@blake @monero I have monero-wallet-rpc connected to a public node, and it has become completely unusable. I always had issues with it (why a service that manages a couple of keys needs hundreds MBs of RAM?), but today it simply doesn't respond to most RPC calls.

@tusker @monero Chain growth is a real problem that is often dismissed because storage prices are falling. This makes sense when you're small and there is not much activity, but that could change in the future.

However, I don't think you can simply drop old blocks without burning someone's savings? One probably should look into what Ethereum people are doing with their state expiry proposals.

@rafael_xmr @monero Support for portable objects can be added to existing Fediverse applications, the idea is relatively simple. However, implementing it might still require significant effort because of the fundamental shift from "one account -> one server" to "one account -> multiple servers". I've started to work on this in Mitra, but we're still several months away (at the very least) from anything usable.

Once this idea is proven to work, I expect rational developers to adopt it, because the benefits of data portability seem to vastly outweigh its downsides.

@monero @rafael_xmr I know how Nostr works, I just don't think it is better. However, if it still be around in a year or two, I might consider using Nostr relays for storing AP data. Why not, if this infrastructure already exists

@rafael_xmr @monero With AP you can have multiple admins too. Server-bound accounts is not an inherent limitation of a protocol, it just happened that popular servers like Mastodon and Lemmy are designed this way.

If you're interested in technical details, here's what I'm working on: https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/ef61/fep-ef61.md

@mister_monster @monero Yes, this is me. I'm choosing fediverse for several reasons 1) almost everyone I care about is here 2) I think it's actually very important to be in contact with people who maintain infrastructure (admins) 3) ActivityPub is an open protocol which is not controlled by anyone 4) better protocol design overall

Many existing implementations suffer from the lack of data portability but I figured out how to fix that.

@treetrnk @monero I recommend building on ActivityPub instead.

You'll be able to connect to monero.town and to everything else in Fediverse. See https://codeberg.org/grindhold/flohmarkt for example. It is a bit unfinished but people are already using it. If you're python dev you can even fork it.

@monerobull monero.town has become one of my primary Monero news sources (along with various weekly digests). Keep it up!

@Eggroley I have no time for shitcoin research. If there are other CHIP sites, it shouldn't be difficult for you to present them.

>Decision making being done by multiple unaffiliated people from multiple different teams on different node software and, CHIPs taking multiple years and iterations to achieve consensus seems to fit the definition of decentralized governance pretty well.

If 10 guys talking on a forum and deciding what's best for all users of a network counts as "decentralized", then yeah, maybe it is.

@Eggroley We were talking about CHIPs at https://bch.info/en/chips. There's a website and a github repo, likely controlled by the same person. Looks very official to me, and very centralized. More generally, there's no such thing as "decentralized governance". You can have anarchy / free market, or you can have a centralized decision making process, but not both.

@japananon @monero I talked with some devs and learned about plans to add GUI for mutlisig to Feather wallet. But it is not clear when this will happen because Monero multisig still has experimental status (its security is not proven).

I could try to build an alternative wallet app, but there's a risk that Feather will add it first and my effort would be wasted.

Also, this just popped up in my feed: https://monero.im/post/3925

@japananon @monero I could build one, sounds like an interesting project.

There was an old system based on BitMessage, but it is unusable and unmaintainted: https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/multisig-messaging-system.html.

Someone is trying to build I2P-based version with an integrated marketplace: https://github.com/creating2morrow/neveko. It doesn't look very usable either, and developer is trying to do everything at once, which is usually a bad idea.

I would make it as a standalone tool that can work on clearnet and can connect to other software

@japananon @monero Apparently it was never attempted. What is so great about Nunchuk, integrated chat?

Given that monero-wallet-rpc provides CLI interface, GUI shouldn't be difficult to build. I think it can be even built by integrating multisig into an existing chat or social application.

@japananon @monero monero-wallet-rpc can manage multisig wallets, but I've never tried it: https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monero-wallet-rpc-reference/#make_multisig

This functionality doesn't seem to be available in Monero GUI.

@tusker There seems to be an overlap in functionality between Kuno and my project Mitra, which also provides a way to support individuals with XMR.

Have you looked at it? The software is well-maintained, and has federation capabilities (I'm posting to monero.town from my own server right now). If any feature is missing (e.g. the ability to set goals), I could add it.

@Wave

>On the other hand this alone may push the hardfork to Seraphis and Jamtis a full year further out

Move slow and don't break things. I think an additional year of development is not a problem for end users

@WishfulAlbatross Looks like it was abandoned by the person who started it. And the only way to submit a MIP was privately via email. No public discussion, no peer review of proposals -- it's understandable why nobody wanted to participate.

I could create a similar repo if anyone is willing to submit a proposal. I have no proposal ideas at the moment, but I wrote Monero-related proposals in the past (1, 2) for CASA (Chain Agnostic Standards Alliance)

@lukeprofits I think your application can be better described as "payment scheduler", and you're right about "monero payment code" sounding confusing. Maybe "monero scheduler code"? Or "monero payment request"?

Also, I'm still interested in implementing code generation in my project. The only blockers are portability issues that I previously reported.