manipulative question. They are forced to work, and clerics define which work women are allowed and which not.

They said they gonna do it, and they do it.

silly comments. Tails is using ublock orgin for Tor browser they ship with.

"Don't use Tails it ruins your OP sec" lol.

You mean my question is always invalid when tested by reality?

But today’s Marxist-Leninists are not all hardcore Lenin fanboys

And then most tankies when I call them tankies:

Please call us something-Lenin. ....but sure, Lenin isn't among their masters. I don't buy into this.

wow, I was already wondering if you gonna refer to the collective experience/history of slavery, colonialism and what not all of black people, and argue that referring to some Marxist-Leninist as tankies to be the same logic. It is not! You did not experience this sort of repression, so stop claiming as if there's some similarity between me calling you a tankie, and discriminating, triggering, devaluing...etc. black folks.

your thinking is so white I can even smell it.

you're aware that dev of lemmy use the term tankie as a self description too?

After all they have been the dominant leftist group for a long time and thus attracted some questionable people as well....

You mean like Lenin? It's not "some", it's the majority, and it's their leaders.

Again, I'm only making those point to show how your original point has been very missleading. I'm not saying that this is a credible source or something it's just a source you used for your claim so I picked it up.

fine, so let's make it a circle.

you and your original point that links to this only source that I used within this discourse:

Even US state department denies the Uyghur genocide. Give it a rest already.

me:

You are aware that this is just about semantics? It’s not about if those crimes against humanity that some call genocide are happening, it is if those crimes against humanity should be called genocide or differently. Stop gaslighing.

[then quotes from the source that you used to suggest that genocide is non-existential]

“The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide,…”

Some more quote from the article:

“Secretary Blinken and I have made clear that genocide has been committed against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang,”

“I have determined that the People’s Republic of China is committing genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, China, targeting Uyghur Muslims and members of other ethnic and religious minority groups,”

“For example, the torture, rape and sexual violence committed against Uyghurs likely constitute genocide ‘by causing serious bodily and mental harm’—the second type of genocide recognized by the Convention,

“More than 1 million Uighurs have been detained in reeducation camps, and many have reportedly been subjected to forced labor and sterilization. China has committed numerous crimes listed in the convention as acts of genocide, including the prevention of births and infliction of bodily or mental harm on members of a group and the compulsory separation of children from their communities, according to human rights groups.”

I explained that the source for your claims is not credible

I used YOUR source that YOU used for YOUR claim. Without you using it as a source, I would have never used it as such.

I ONLY used it as a means to proof the manipulative character of your argumentation. Me not following your rhetoric lead, is just me not joining your gaslighting.

Dronie refers to the fact that anarchist positions are always aligned with US foreign policy.

hmm, ok. This wouldn't fit me. I'm opposing US foreign policy in most parts, not all I must admit. I'm for: Dismantle the US empire. It's just a phrase, but I mean it like that.

You haven’t addressed a single point that I made

I did. I addressed your original point. Then you wanted to talk about something else and I said, no, I'm not going to follow you into this rabbit hole, let's first stick to the original point. If anytime someone makes an argument that makes your argument become logical inconsistent, you start to distract with something else, no point following you into the rabbit hole. Because all you want is to win, but I don't gonna join your rules.

here just so you don't miss it out, here's how I respond to your original point: https://lemmy.ml/post/78808/comment/74761

I can be ideologically opposed to anything, and still take the courage to engage with such individuals. I don't want to live in cult, with anyone part of that just going to agree with me. I let my ideas be confronted by those who oppose me. They will either stand or be dismantled. Both will have a positive outcome for me, and that is learning. Either I stand corrected afterwards, or I will have learned more about your habit, thought patterns and communities. This is intel activity, done by an random anarcho[...]

I wouldn't understand what dronie is so that term might not well serve the purpose if used to address me. If you address me as anarkiddie, it be enough for a tiny giggle, but then I'll be remembered how that term is actually discrimination against children. It helps to reproduce adultism over and over again.

What I’m aware of is that there is no credible evidence of any sort of genocide happening in Xinjiang.

Why is it always the same rhetorical methods you (are you ML?) people use?

Telling someone they are wrong, and they just need to read a bit more into it. Then they read a bit more into it, from the source you linked and notice that your entire argument is nothing but manipulative but they anyway use the arguments from the very source you linked as a means to show you how pointless your comment was...and then, like nearly always, people like you will then argue: no, no, all false: read this very long thread.

I did read some threads on that subject from some MLs already. They all had one thing in common:

forced labor is actually something good in this case. But look this is an ideological debate. You think it's good, I think it's bad. There's no point debating that I should change my value system.

I recommend you to read some other articles by this author

I did already, not my favorite author but I haven't read anything that is comparable bad with ML

do a web-search on him admitting to faking multiple accounts as sockpuppets

I am aware of that. The author admitted their wrong doing, and because of his behavior stepped down as moderator, at least temporarily. I don't know about the current status. To those he caused the most harm by his behavior, they made piece with it and remain in friendship afaik. If you need the backround story to all that, I can dick it out for you.

However some anticiv people are really just crypto eco-fascists

some primies are like that. I did read threads how ziq makes fun of their nonsense.

ok, propably I missed that. Lot's of text there. you mind writing a TL;DR?

Here's a list to some alternatives. Some might look to be non-alternatives at first glance, so before naming some alternatives I'd like to remind what the purpose of spaces like this are:

Communicating with others

• writing letters to prisoners, and having an adress they can respond to. If they answer, write an response
• walls (get some chalk, spray paint, etc). I grand you read/write access
• zines (write/read and them circulate)
• non-lemmy fediverse platforms
• email lists (you can use them as if they are federated forums)
• blogs/rss feeds
• irc/xmpp
• raddle.me

his question aims to look at alternatives, not why we should remain using lemmy or any lemmy instance.

I must admit I don't know the author to well, but usually when people claim this anti-authoritarian is as bad as this authoritarian in regards of ziq (the author), people refer to his anticiv position. Anticiv get usually misrepresented and miss understood. I can understand why, but that doesn't make them as bad as the "tankie".

If you need a read on anticiv theory, you might enjoy reading something from Abdullah Öcalan leader of the PKK, which has Marxist-Leninist tradition.

huh, why the downvotes? Because I used the term tankies, but you prefer to be called Marxist-Leninist? When contemporary anti-authoritarians use the term tankie, they usually refer to contemporary Marxist-Leninist. Hope that explanation helps. So when I say you are Marxist-Leninst, I mean you are tankie.

xD. I get the Joke @TheAnonymouseJoker. Hope you wont get to much downovtes by those not understanding the actual joke. xD Because this might not be obvious to others reading here I give a short explanation:

It's a common practice by tankies and of those who come at their defense, to make some claim/question about "shit lib" or CIA, and it doesn't matter if it fits the current argument or not. Usually some conspiracy follow after that.

The joke here is to make a pun out of that behavior, by injecting that "CIA" claim at a moment it just doesn't servers well.

And here's why: Someone tried to gaslight an political opponent by linking to an article that they claim to be about "Even US state department denies the Uyghur genocide". So all I did is to quote some parts of the text, as a means to break the gaslighting spell. And now, the source that was original used to prove that that genocide did not happen, if used by a non-tankie it is CIA propaganda shit libs believe in. And because this art of debate is so absurd, it creates some laughter for some. On the other hand it is also very anoying, because you can't have any serious logical consistent debate with anyone who argues like that.

The developers of lemmy are self-admidded tankies, what else to expect?

Tankies and the Left-Unity Scam https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-tankies-and-the-left-unity-scam

You are aware that this is just about semantics? It's not about if those crimes against humanity that some call genocide are happening, it is if those crimes against humanity should be called genocide or differently. Stop gaslighing.

"The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide,..."

Some more quote from the article:

“Secretary Blinken and I have made clear that genocide has been committed against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang,”

“I have determined that the People’s Republic of China is committing genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, China, targeting Uyghur Muslims and members of other ethnic and religious minority groups,”

“For example, the torture, rape and sexual violence committed against Uyghurs likely constitute genocide ‘by causing serious bodily and mental harm’—the second type of genocide recognized by the Convention,

"More than 1 million Uighurs have been detained in reeducation camps, and many have reportedly been subjected to forced labor and sterilization. China has committed numerous crimes listed in the convention as acts of genocide, including the prevention of births and infliction of bodily or mental harm on members of a group and the compulsory separation of children from their communities, according to human rights groups."

There is a difference between people advocating for human rights abuses and people saying that some actor does in fact not engage in human rights abuses.

The main difference is, that one practice gaslighting as a means to justify such acts.
They will claim "it was just joking", or explain how in fact the abuse is something good, hence they aren't for human right violation because they are for something that they just defined as something good.

I really hope people won't use this as an argument to through women under the bus, because "emancipation is shit lib and CIA propaganda".

Of course the CIA uses what ever means to justify war crimes.

Here's the position of an women organisation form women of afghanistan:

"From the very beginning we could predict such an outcome. On the first days of the US occupation of Afghanistan, RAWA declared on October 11, 2001:

“The continuation of US attacks and the increase in the number of innocent civilian victims not only gives an excuse to the Taliban, but also will cause the empowerment of the fundamentalist forces in the region and even in the world.”" http://rawa.org/rawa/2021/08/21/rawa-responds-to-the-taliban-takeover.html

It is the logical conclusion of the strategy you propose, imho.

"Before there can be emancipation, they need peace."

See: Taliban are at an asymmetrical warfare against women. Women can either fight for emaciation or surrender. Taking an opposing position towards an enemy that targets you by asymmetrical warfare is contrary to peace. You suggest that peace must come before emaciation. That can only mean, women should surrender to the Taliban.

If you mean something else, please explain.

yes I know. And that is part of their identity and political believes.

the discrepancy between what people say... and what they do is often huge.

Yes, and this decrepancy is for me part of their policial believes. When I try to map peoples believes, I never do that purly on what they say, I do it based on all sorts of signals I get from them.

Before there can be emancipation, they need peace.

What you're saying is basically that women must surrender to have peace in Afghanistan. That is utterly disgusting.

Most relationship behavior is not very related to the political leanings of the persons involved. In fact it is not uncommon to see quite the opposite behavior.

never in my life have I seen a relationship that wasn't hugely shaped by the political believes of those in. Not all political believes are a matter to love relationship, but there's a huge portion of political believes that is.

sounds like you haven't lived to anarchist principles since a long time

also if the only solution for Afghanistan you can think of is nationalism, or pan-nationalism you set the bar extremly low.

Before there can be emancipation, they need peace.

There is no peace without emancipation. Asymmetrical warfare, is still warfare.

Taliban existed prior to the US invasion. They rose in power after the invasion of the UdSSR. Obviously they gained even more momentum "thanks" to the US invasion.

and then the capitalist gamification that they aruge brings stronger protection then how Tor does it.

wtf. why is session promoted here? they worked together with alt-right shitheads.

if you would need to introduce someone new to ML, someone that read to much lib shit and to much CIA prop, what would you suggest them to read or watch?

(I didn't expect such a respond for the reason posting this question to /c/Anarchism)